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Neueste Meldungen und SchlagzeilenA Samoan Airline Now Charges Passengers By Body Weight

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A Samoan Airline Now Charges Passengers By Body Weight

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Bad news for those carrying a few extra pounds: Samoa Air has become the world's first airline to introduce a pricing policy which charges passengers by body weight. Time to diet. (gizmodo.com) Mehr...

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fitzmiller
Fitz Miller 8
It should be passenger plus luggage weight if it is just the physics driving the pricing. So fat people with little or no luggage should pay the same as small people with lots of luggage if the total weight of service is the same.
macinsd
Wm MacLeod 2
I agree totally and think you have it exactly right!
The only additional thing that should be part of that is a single ticket buys a single seat width. Should one exceed that seat width, then two tickets (for an additional adjoining seat) must be purchased, same as exceeding a total (passenger & baggage) base weight incurs additional per pound charges.

Remember, airlines are a business, not a social agency. People that do not exceed the FAA's standard passenger weight (for flight planning purposes) are subsidizing (paying for) the extra expense of flying people that do exceed the standard.

This is no different (except for magnitude) from the extra fuel expense incurred by operating a car with more weight in it. Extra weight burns extra fuel--simple physics. And, one cannot fit as many large passengers in a car as thin passengers. Bottom line, it costs more to move large people. People with less total weight (body plus baggage) are paying to move those with a heavier total weight.

To put it even more bluntly, those with heavier total weights are not paying their fair share!
fulframe
Gary Hjelm 1
For all the people who think that I have should pay extra because I am a big person, I don't even try and fly on those airlines. On Southwest airlines I have tried to buy the extra seat on their aircraft, and was refused. It wasn't because I didn't want you to be uncomfortable, but it was because they don't offer the first class seat that is bigger, and I wanted to be comfortable. However, Southwest Airlines told me that they wanted everyone who could fit on the aircraft to go on that flight, and their issues with the second seat are different from ours. So much for the money angle of the airline. Even if I was able to buy two seats, the seats are uncomfortable trying to sit with on cheek of the butt sitting in the gap between seats. If you think that everyone is under 6'0" and weigh less than 175 pounds, should be the only ones on the aircraft, then you are living in a cloud. It isn't just the width of the seat that bothers me on long flights, but the space in-between the seats. When the airlines get down to a 31" pitch there isn't a way of contorting my tall body from putting my knee's in your back. So, what can I do? Now days, I don't fly on an aircraft that can't accommodate my largeness. That generally means first class or business class. If the flights require a 31"pitch and a 17" seat, then I don't go to that location. So, guess what? I won't be going to Samoa anytime soon, and realistically, probably not ever. If the truth is actually revealed, from both sides of the issues, that neither one of the two sides care what the personal problems are!
MalkZ
Malk Zirkind 1
That only helps if the passenger actually fits into a single seat. I've sat near some that took up part of my seat as well.
meeverett
Matthew Everett 4
I don't understand why this isn't how every airline calculates fares. All the other schemes, like fees tacked on to roller coaster fares, have never made sense to me compared to something like this. This way everything on the mailing tube is just treated like cargo. Set profitable rates and move on.

I guess the moral of the story is my parents raised a realist and I would happily step on the scale right there in front of God and everybody, pay my fare, and get on the plane. I'm not worried about what number people might see.
sheilakinnear
sheila kinnear 4
If I have to pay extra for baggage over the limit, why not passengers over a certain weight too?
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
You just brought up a point I hadn't considered. Does this mean you don't pay for your ticket until you check in? Or does it just mean they just either put another charge on your card if you're over weight, or a credit if you're under? Problem with that, too, is those credits sometimes take a while. I wonder how that issue is being dealt with.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
weeeeelllll....nobody told you to pack half of your wardrobe...lol
jimquinndallas
Jim Quinn 9
Reminds me of Southwest's policy for passengers who cannot fit into a standard seat--they must pay for a second seat if the flight is crowded. I heard so many large people complain about the policy, but holy crap! I got so darned tired of people spilling over into my space that I had paid for that I was thrilled to see the policy implemented. One flight I remember was a classic: three huge folks flying standby wanted to sit close together, and they had a row of three seats all to themselves. Sadly, they looked like Siamese Triplets trying to fit into those seats side-by-side, and I hoped that they realized just how uncomfortable their predicament was for others to experience. Before anybody flames me, at one point I was a pretty good sized guy at 235 pounds when I saw a photo of myself and decided to lose weight. It took a bit, but I dropped 50 pounds in about six months by doing table exercises--I pushed away from it. One at any airport in the country can always tell which aircraft are bound for Texas/South Central U.S.... by the line of obese travelers. For those who absolutely cannot lose weight, I do have empathy. For most others who WON'T lose weight: Get your wallet out.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Jim: I'm not going to completly flame you but I think I might take a little issue on your one line about "One at any airport in the country can always tell which aircraft are bound for Texas/South Central U.S.... by the line of obese travelers."
misysdsb
David Brown 2
I might consider purchasing an extra seat if I was allowed to remove the seat in front of me and gain the extra leg-room I need. May I please borrow the wrench?
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
I could come up with a better connection to obesity than the south.....and you know what I'm talkin about lol
preacher1
preacher1 1
Chrisaviation
Christian Fardel 3
hey guys , we are not talking about fat passengers, we are talking about big, really big passengers;
Have you seen the size of an average Samoan?
Tex1
Tex Pemberton 3
My point Donna is that I pay for my space which I expect to be comfortable. I do not appreciate it when an overweight passenger might sit next to me and cramp my space!!
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
So many ways to approach this. Who's next to pick this up, RyanAir?
A new billing model for the walk-on cargo.

Samoa Air's website - it's been in business since way back in 2012.
http://www.samoaair.ws/
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 3
I remember when American (I believe) had a campaign to reduce aircraft weight, including magazines. It was all an effort at fuel savings. Weight matters so it is a viable way to charge for fare. Will it catch on???? Doubtful, mostly because of a stupid thing called PC. It is one of the parameters we use on most freight. How about a surcharge on pax over the standard weight of 170# ?? If they weigh you with your carryon some would pay big. Lol
Pileits
Pileits 3
I can't find fault with this after all airplanes are meant to LIFT things!
Tex1
Tex Pemberton 3
And are we not concerned when we see a grossly overweight passenger walking down the aisle during boarding, concerned that they might be sitting next to us!!!
Tex1
Tex Pemberton 3
And are we not always concerned when we see a grossly overweight passenger walking towards us down the aisle, concerned that they might be sitting next to us!!!
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 3
130# woman. 2 - 50# checked bags. 1 - carryon 40#. 1 - purse 10#. Equals 280#.
250# woman. Same bags. Equals 400#.
Me. 210#. 1 - carryon 25#. Equals 235#.
Fair? Pay up sucker!
preacher1
preacher1 1
It was AA and I believe it was under Arpy's reign
KingHell
Adrian Rox 1
In the past airlines have used an average based on profiling their passengers. Not very scientific that though. Point is if you have a load of thin passengers you need to know that too - you can save a lot of fuel, and carrying unnecessary fuel costs money/creates pollution. Id' say this is something all airlines should be demanded to do. The only reason they haven't is because people are stupid and vain.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum -1
What's your point?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
There but for the grace of ticketing and scheduling, goes my seatmate.
Av8nut
Michael Fuquay 2
Makes sense to me. It cost them more in fuel for the extra weight, so they're just passing the bill.
tsavo
terry day 2
I'm surprised the UK didn't think of it first , just to squeeze that extra out of your pocket , no doubt we will .
jaysauto
james Boudreau 2
Jay Boudreau: I was the A&p/I/A for "Manua Air" back in 80ties. Just one Islander bask and forth to the two small Islands 70 miles out to sea. One of the runways had 3 wrecks in the bushes. Very dangerous. Short,on the side of a hill,a mountain on one end so you came in towards a steep hill with a narrow runway. With the winds it is very dangerous. The weight is just safety. A 12 year old Samoan can weigh over 200lbs. The station managers are usually chiefs so no will challenge there #'s. FAA has shut the airport down while I was there for overgrossing the aircraft. One pilot after a hairy T.O. landed back in Samoa walked straight to the bar and got drunk/ AH True.
misysdsb
David Brown 2
As a 6'6" person I've been dealing with too-small airplane seats most of my adult life. Recently some airlines have shrunk their seat pitch to less than 31 inches. The distance between my kneecap and my stern is 34 inches. Some people can lose weight, but I can't lose height. Purchasing extra seats doesn't help. Technically, I don't have a handicap but a bulkhead seat is about the only one that accommodates me. If someone really needs a bulkhead seat, I would gladly give it up for an exit row seat. But the airline is unwilling to re-seat a short person sitting in an exit row. Hmm....
mbusath
mbusath 2
The logical consequence of this will be that small people fly Samoa Air and heavy people switch to competitors, creating more incentive for the average passenger to fly Samoa. Increased demand = higher profits, not a bad strategy.
RECOR10
RECOR10 2
Pay what you weigh was a comic skit by someone, might have been George Carlin or Chris Rock...was really a funny skit. There is also the idea to put smaller womens clothing on closely spaced racks (especially spandex). So, if a woman cant fit between the racks of clothing they cant fit into the clothing on them.

peopleofwalmart.com would be gone in no time ;-P
MalkZ
Malk Zirkind 2
Some policies are broken. Period. However someone who takes up two seats (or more) width-wise creates problems for other passengers.
rummerb
Bob Rummer 3
This policy is sexist as women are generally lighter than me and discriminatory. Are they going to give you a bigger seat if you pay more for your size? I already have enough problems as I am 6ft 5in tall and am force to squeeze into a tiny seat in conditions that would not be permitted for animal transportation or upgrade. The airlines are already getting away with passenger abuse that would not be allowed in any other industry
cer
Celia Reiter-Saunders 3
Good point Bob. The airlines should give you what you pay for.
They already have executive class, so if you have to pay more they need to bump you up.
cer
Celia Reiter-Saunders 1
I agree with Fitz Miller -It should be passenger plus luggage weight -makes more sense.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Samoa Air should "Target and Market" the U.S. Mainland vigorously!
65% of Americans are overweight. That means 72 million Adults. Since 1980 the number of children in the U.S. has more than tripled, which equals approx. 9 million children and teens- ages 6-19 years! Flights in American Samoa are operated by Britton Norman BN2 a/c, which carries 10 pax and Cessna 172's, which carries 4...one of the 4 being the pilot! With these statistics, Samoa Air, if they the choose to implement this discriminating "Pricing Policy", would make "BOO-COO" bucks! Therefore, would be able to upgrade to a Premium Service Aircraft! The possibilities are endless!!
almaa
Alma arseneau 1
I think that ia OK Traveling with two bigs persons one on your left and one on your right that awful It s happen to me
clbea
Claude B. 1
They already removed many meals in aircraft, that is save weight of food.

If you travel often in air plane, you will loose weight.
MHTARFF
David Cormier 1
I don't think a wrench is on the TSA approval list but you can bring a knife and cut the seat out.
plow675984
Peter Low 1
I am a tall person (6 feet 5 inches) and have also contracted a Critical Illness so have to take a bucket full of meds every day which includes steroids. I neither chose to be this tall nor to contract this Critical Illness, yet it seems that I am now marginalised by airlines like this through no fault of my own other than having been born in the first place !!!

Yes, I agree that there are people who 'spill over' into the seat next to them (incidentally, I am NOT one of those) but some people, like me, cannot chose the weight that they have. I have tried to lose weight, but have been told with the steroid level that I take it will be impossible. So does this mean that I am not meant to fly either ??? As a 'fly by weight' policy would, of course, mean that people like myself - already disadvantaged by illness - are disadvantaged even further !!!
timby
Tim Berry 1
just this thought about Ryanair with the suggestion of CHARGING to use the WC ... for my money, there should be a REDUCTION in fare for offloading that weight, liquid or solid ... presumably on a per-mile-carried basis ...
kettler
karl kettler 1
FAST Before You Fly!
ehab4174
ehab ramadan 1
what about air we breath no charges
andreaspeleties
andreas peleties 1
It is very interesting Samoan Airline is taking care of our body to be healthy and good looking congratulation to the Samoan Airline.
rolex66
Louis Lerant 1
This thread reminds me of a funny event that took place on a trip from Vegas back to Toronto. I was sitting in my window seat but my wife's seat was one row back in the opposite isle seat :( Then this orthodox Jewwish guy comes down the isle and is upset because he's seperated from his friend. He sees me sitting alone with 2 empty seats beside me. He goes into negotiation mode and eventually I take his friends seat which is beside my wife in the isle. I really like a window seat so quite a sacrifice on my part. So now the smug jewish guy has my window seat and his buddy next to him with an empty isle seat on their left and I'm one row behind them in the isle with my wife beside me. Just before the door closes there's one more passenger that comes down the isle. This huge 350lbs. black guy comes down the isle and you get it, there's only one seat left open. It was reminescent of a Seinfeld episode. This black guy was loud,talkative,a clothing designer with a really gay aura. It was priceless. By the end of our fight we were all freinds.
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 1
If you want to adjust fares based on the size/weight of the passenger then I think there's an implicit obligation to also adjust the seat size and spacing accordingly.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 1
cer
Celia Reiter-Saunders 1
I agree with Fitz Miller, it should be passenger plus luggage weight, makes more sense.
preacher1
preacher1 1
To quote Dee Lowry here below "Flights in American Samoa are operated by Britton Norman BN2 a/c, which carries 10 pax and Cessna 172's, which carries 4...one of the 4 being the pilot!". Pay by weight would make sense in these aircraft moreso than transport category as it is a verious serious factor for them(baggage weight for sure)
andreaspeleties
andreas peleties 1
Funny everybody must put himself in a diet because maybe some more airlines would introduce this policy. Remember we are living in an economy of savings.
Mooney62L
Buz Allen 1
Way overdue Pan Am, TWA and many more airlines might still be in business had they the Balls to implement this policy!
amcoles
Alan Coles 1
What a brilliant idea, plus the crew will know the weight of the passengers rather than working it out on an average weight per passenger.
ANILPLAHA
ANIL PLAHA 1
it is o.k charges passenger by weight, but to provide also a seat for his sitting according waste size.
MaureenLee
Maureen Lee 1
Samoan Airlines may be the first commercial airline to introduce charges by body weight, but Jungle Aviation & Radio Services in Papua New Guinea started this system back in the late 1970s! Perhaps Samoan learned about that?! It was intoduced by my husband.
bumper823
L D Peter 1
So if I plan ahead on Southwest and purchase 2 seats so no one has to sit next to me and the flight is full, can I sell my extra seat to a standby passenger? Suddenly, I would bet my being fat is not as big a deal as being left behind.
clbea
Claude B. 1
A fact often seen...
Rich people are thin, while poor people are oftenly fat or big.

Note: I'm thin, not rich, not fat. :)
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
So you're saying if you fly a lot, you'll not only slim down but be richer. Win/Win.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Karma. ...Thx for sharing and giving me a giggle this rainy Monday morning.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Why? I'm not challenging you, I'm just not sure I see the reasoning. (Just think, the airline could offer various size seats and charge an upgrade fee depending on what size you select.) Wow. Money pouring in all over the place.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
As a Private Pilot and Retired Flight Attendant I'm very aware of "weight and balance", Preacher1. And I agree with you that it is very critical with these types of A/C. I merely was saying that Samoan Air would profit with 65% of U.S. Mainland Americans and be able to aquire a more productive fleet of A/C that would accommodate pax weight and baggage weight.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Lol at boo-coo. (Beaucoup I believe, would be understood by most readers on this forum.) Dee you're a hoot.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
But, when you book your flight (usually around the 2-week advance time frame) how does one know what in the world your luggage is going to weigh? Would you be expected to pack a full 2 weeks in advance, since when purchasing your ticket they require body weight and luggage weight? I understand the theory, but in reality I believe it's flawed. And I suppose guessing its weight is an alternative, but I almost always seem to end up packing far more than I had intended in addition to which I wouldn't begin to be able to guess how much it weighed. I suppose this may be excellent motivation to learn how to travel light.
Bernie20910
Bernie Behling 1
I think the obligation is implicit because the justification most airlines have been using for the current narrow seats and shallow spacing is that they need to get as many fares as possible to remain profitable. However, if they charge more based on weight/size that kind of blows that argument out of the water. Also, to not adjust the seating based on size/weight if you're being charged extra for it means that you're paying a sliding scale for greater discomfort, which is pretty silly.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Pardon my French, Donna.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 1
hahahahahahahahahaha!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Dee - I do hope you know that was a good-natured comment, meant to be a joke. If you took offense - ss.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
I get it. But, maybe they just aren't profitable enough? (Of course that might be like saying how much fun is too much, isn't it.)
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
hehehe (i'd have typed that in french, but i don't know what it is)
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
PS - I don't believe the idea is that you'd be charged more for space, but rather because of fuel consumption based on weight. But then who knows. I worked for just a few months in Revenue Management and still don't understand the formula.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
No offense taken. All is peachie!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
I kind of wonder if it's really discriminating. Think of all the things we buy based on weight: produce, meat, gold, diamonds. I realize this could be taken to the extreme, but the idea isn't really all that new. Larger people, if you'll notice in those tons of catalogs that come in the mail, pay more for their clothes than the smaller sizes. It's simply the price one would pay for eating more than necessary (I tried to say that in as nicest a way possible.)
scotjock2312
Robert Colson 1
what about these new fuel efficientaircraft eg 787 and new a350 are we going to get massive discounts because these aircraft use 30% less fuel dont think so greedy airlines will pocket the lot
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Makes sense to me. I am 145kg.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
I am 127kg.....I like that number better....lol
KingHell
Adrian Rox 0
My cousin is a cabin service director on EasyJet and they make people pay for any seat their body occupies because they are larger than 'normal'.. If they won't pay they're off. Every system will have winners and losers. It's much fairer to charge people by weight since that's a direct component of actual cost. I am above average height so I certainly wouldn't be winning FYI. But we've all been subsidising fat people for years on flights. Quite literally carrying them!

Why not have an allowance for people AND their luggage inclusive if we want to not make too big a deal about people's weight? They can get on the scales with their bags and that's that.
plow675984
Peter Low 0
Paying for the area or seat space that they occupy is a far fairer way of charging. It is a very simplistic outlook to say that people should be charged by their weight.

Maybe they should start weighing cabin crew as well, so that if they weigh above a certain level they have their pay reduced ??
macinsd
Wm MacLeod 0
I've been a pilot for over 50 years and fully understand the relationship between passenger and baggage weight determining the cost, and range, of a flight. Unfortunately, most passengers don't have a clue about how weight determines the cost of a flight. Put aside all the excuses for being overweight, in almost all cases it comes down to calories taken in, versus calories expended. People can affect their weight.
I have advocated for years that airlines should establish a standard weight ticket price, i.e., 170 pounds including carry-on baggage. Walk over a scale with ones carry-on at check-in and any weight over the purchased 170 lbs allowance is automatically billed to the credit card used to purchase the ticket. Passengers can weigh themselves with their carry-on at home and adjust their total weight as desired--or be prepared to pay for the extra weight at check-in.
All checked bags should have the same standard--$X per pound.
It would be most interesting to see how quickly passengers decide they don't really need to take a lot of the stuff with which they now travel--and also provide a financial incentive to loose the extra fat they needlessly carry on their bodies.
xristos
chris tsimiklis 0
wow is this unsafe bullshit airline for real??? good luck with that!!!!
mpradel
Marcus Pradel 0
Those are smaller aircraft.. you can't treat all passengers equally.

But it'll be interesting to watch if any carriers stateside begin to adopt a similar policy.
dbaker
Daniel Baker 4
Weight has the same impact regardless of aircraft size, be it a C172 or B772.
Av8nut
Michael Fuquay 0
I beg to differ. Many times on smaller regional props, they may move people around in the cabin to "balance" things out. I've seen it happen on Saab 340s myself.
dbaker
Daniel Baker 3
I was on a B777-200ER that was half full, but they still did voluntary denied boarding to carry more cargo.
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 2
because cargo is where it's at....people are just liabilities.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Crates don't sue, or post on YouTube
pdixonj
pdixonj 1
It depends on the aircraft type really...on smaller turboprop types, moving people around is done more for operational weight and balance reasons. On larger aircraft (which includes widebodies), the consideration is more for optimal aircraft performance reasons. It's true that people will be denied boarding to make room for more or heavier cargo (boarding of revenue cargo or even extra fuel over nonrev pax), but where people are sitting on the plane can affect how efficiently it flies, no matter how big or small it is.
juliocmp
Julio Paiva 1
Peter i think the airline should take care of there crew health. So why not pay extra for how is in good shape instead of worsening the health of those already not well. Do not solve your problem worsening the other. bay the way, I'm a captain and I'm in good shape.
macinsd
Wm MacLeod 1
A little addendum: any passenger knowing their total weight will be over two base tickets, i.e., 340 pounds, is automatically assigned two adjacent seats-window and center (for safety reasons, so a third passenger is not trapped in by them).
All passengers above a certain published seat width would also have to purchase two adjacent seats. This could be on the airlines' websites and part of the ticket purchasing procedure, e.g. "Body width (side to side) in excess of 21 inches must purchase two seats".
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Well, it's a heck of a good way to cut down on overcrowded flights. Oh wait - that's not a very good idea, is it.
macinsd
Wm MacLeod 1
Maybe it would be a great way to cut down on overcrowded flights!
The airlines would be selling more seats and it would encourage them to fly larger or additional aircraft to meet the demand.
KingHell
Adrian Rox 1
I think you'll find the crew are the only ones they do weight presently. Weight corresponds to fuel requirements - area has no impact on the exigences of fuel required, it is simply a creature comfort. It falls under marketing not safety.
FedExCargoPilot
FedExCargoPilot -2
Im absolutely for healthy lifestyle, and believe in fitness. Looking at the website. these are smaller aircraft not large jets like legacy carriers, so weight is of a person can have a bigger effect on the CG. However this is discrimination in almost every way. Its discrimination against most men, who weigh more than women, to taller people, for example a 6'2'' person with 18 percent body fat is healthier than a 5ft 4 with 35 percent, height is not in the persons control as stated in the website. If its about the extreme case that is fine, but weight has many factors. These are just a few.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 4
I don't see it as discrimination at all. Set a base weight/ person. Then charge a per pound surcharge above that weight, including carryon. I see 100# women all the time with a carryon so huge and heavy they can't lift it to the bin. It's no different than charging for 2 seats if you can't fit into one. Not discrimination, just stupid PC.
WALLACE24
WALLACE24 1
SW already surcharges for check baggage over 50#. What's the difference? It's you and your stuff...
mduell
Mark Duell -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Samoa Air Becomes The First Airline To Introduce "Pay As You Weigh" Airfares

Samoa Air has become the world's first airline to implement "pay as you weigh" flights, meaning overweight passengers pay more for their seats. Like many Pacific island nations, Samoa has a serious obesity problem and is often included in the top 10 countries for obesity levels. As such, Mr Langton believes his airline's new payment policy will also help promote health and obesity awareness.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/airline-to-charge-overweight-passengers-more-20130402-2h495.html
stbernardpass
Jackie Butcher -1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Samoa Air Ticket Prices Now 'By The Pound'

Heavier Passengers Pay More To Fly

It seemed inevitable that it would come to this. Samoa Air has become the world's first airline to charge passengers by the pound, meaning heavier customers pay more than their slimmer counterparts.

http://www.aero-news.net/EmailArticle.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=f5693283-b455-4316-b719-5bd6552d0bcb