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Grounded by Vaccine Exemption: Married United Pilots Feel Betrayed

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Diversity, equity, inclusion; this has been the mantra of United Airlines. United pilots Stephanie and Kyle Atteberry thought the company meant it. (www.theepochtimes.com) Mehr...

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ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 33
The story makes them out to be some kind of a martyrs. They are not. They are adults that made an adult choice, and now they have to face the consequences.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 1
If you understood anything about being a career pilot you would think differently. Many pilots including myself are not getting the jab because first of all it’s not FAA approved. Second any one of the side effects that are happening can be career ending. It’s amazing how many I’ll educated people we have on this comment thread.
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 2
MOST sane Americans support you no matter how many leftist fascists you see posting here.
garritt
garritt 3
most responses are from educated conservatives....not fascist....but the village idiot said the same thing you did last month
RHLussier
Richard Lussier 4
Please educate me on the "career ending" side effects of mRNA vaccines and the probability of their occurrence versus the probability of severe outcomes of COVID-19. I am just one of those "I'll" educated "Leftist commies" that needs these things explained to me. In my uneducated ways I calculated that you have about a 1.6% chance of death if you contract COVID-19 in the USA (that's 16,191 deaths in a million cases). The rate has been decreasing as post infection treatments have improved (e.g. monoclonal antibodies and ritonavir and molnupiravir more recently). I am not going to get into Long COVID, but I can tell you this: it is real and we learn more about its devastating effects on patients - young and old - every day. Now, if you get an mRNA vaccine, you have a 0.00334% chance of dying as a result of the vaccination (or about 33 deaths in a million vaccinations). Some people who died after getting vaccinated might not have died because of the vaccine. The VAERS data probably overstates the number of vaccine related deaths (not only for the COVID-19 vaccine, but for all vaccines). I admit I am not well educated, but if I were playing the odds, I would rather take the odds the vaccine gives me. Now you might say, "but I said career-ending events, not just deaths." There have been 9,999 reported "permanent disabilities" due to the COVID-19 vaccines in the US, however if you look at only the mRNA vaccines, then your chances of a permanent disability is about the same as the chance of death from a COVID-19 vaccine. Now, if you take the permanent disabilities rate in that population and figure it is equally distributed amongst all careers without bias, and knowing there are about 670,000 licensed pilots in the USA (all pilots not just career pilots), that means 44 pilots, or so, might suffer permanent disability events due to vaccination (22 might die, and 22 might have permanent disability). No one wants to be one of those 44. However unvaccinated pilots who get COVID-19 might face a 1.6% chance of death (that is a bit more complicated since death rates are different by age, sex, race, chronic conditions, socioeconomic status, etc., but since I am uneducated, please let me roll with it for now). That also does not count career-ending Long COVID as a possibility. Again, I would rather be in the vaccinated group. You can choose to play the other odds - that is Darwinism (but a whole other discussion).
cgwng
Alain Duncan 2
Richard, you are free to make your own choices based on the evidence that you've researched.

However, when you compare risks from the disease vs. risks from the vax, you should take into account the period of effectiveness of each.

The vaccine is only effective for a few months (thus the need for boosters). You'll have to risk permanent disability/death several times a year for the rest of your life if you choose the vaccine route. And there's still no guarantee you won't catch the disease.

So it's not a simple either/or comparison of saying you have X% chance of dying from one vs. Y% of dying from the other. We don't know much about long term consequences of either one. For example, will the vax make you more susceptible to future strains? We don't have all the answers yet.
klunker
Chas DeVine 2
I know. My friend Ben had something to say that makes a lot of sense to me. Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
dnorthern
dnorthern -1
If you are looking for a left winger devoid of common, or other, sense, make haste to a mirror a gaze upon its reflection

You may just have a Pogo moment about you and your ilk
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -7
Sickening how these posts are from Leftist commies. Translates to
The most ignorant of stupids. Agree w you, Jackson
garritt
garritt 4
speaking of village idiots
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
And you arrive, depriving a village of their idiot
garritt
garritt 1
why do the vast majority of responders think you are a idiot....maybe they are all doing drugs...or you are an idiot....since I do not do drugs & think you are an idiot /assasso.
cgwng
Alain Duncan -1
As a passenger, I would much rather my pilots not be participating in a clinical trial where one of the common side-effect is sudden cardiac arrest.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 2
You are exactly right. Unfortunately the military is seeing issues with its pilots with this vaccine also. There are pilots that have been grounded as a result of this vaccine.
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 4
Do you have any references or sources to validate this assertion?
cgwng
Alain Duncan 1
Would be ironic, and tragic, if the FAA decided to ground all the pilots who had had the jab for elevated cardiac risk.
garritt
garritt 0
the side effects of not getting a vax is death...cardiac...longterm health problems......all of which are career ending....get your shot or go away...
preditor4u
James Cartwright -1
For about the same statistics as the flu. Yeah sorry. Statistically your less than 1% argument doesn’t compare to my life and career.
srobak
srobak -2
this is a lie, and no.
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 1
MY body MY choice.
jjlease
John Lease 2
That is the problem. You only think of yourself and the hell with society. I see it every day on the highways, "I" have to get there first so get out of my way. I don't have to obey the law, that's for the other guy. I care about only myself.
dnorthern
dnorthern -4
The train boards over there. It will take you to safety.

You are an abject idiot
skinutca
skinutca 14
Absolutely. And your choice to seek different employment if you fail to meet the Health and safety requirements of your job.
dnorthern
dnorthern 3
Actually no employer should have to tolerate you
srobak
srobak -4
no matter how much lipstick you put on it - it is not at all a requirement based on health & safety.
Kensterfly
Ken Thompson 9
Unless you want an abortion
TimJahns
TimJahns 4
When it comes to vaccines and "herd immunity" (which is their primary purpose -- not just protecting your sorry ass from getting sick and decreasing your chances of spreading it to others)... There is no "I" in team!
KarinGerreman
Karin Gerreman 8
It is United’s CHOICE to enforce their policies; I am sure they weighed the consequences. Did these pilots? Those were the CHOICES they made, with that comes … well… what happened to them.
srobak
srobak -2
Actually it is not their choice - it was an executive order which as a federal contractor united is required to follow and enforce. EO #14042
klunker
Chas DeVine 2
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
srobak
srobak 1
garritt
garritt 1
YES your choice, but you also are choosing to be like smokers that are sent to the outdoors to smoke, but still leave their asshole tracks wherever they smoke by leaving their buts in piles where they are baned to...........anti-vaxers should be banned from mixing with those with brains
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
How does it feel to be a fckn d!ck? To say you were an idiotic a$$whole would be providing you with far too much credit
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
How does it feel to be a fckn d!ck? To say you were an idiotic a$$whole would be providing you with far too much credit
garritt
garritt -1
your body ...your choice ...but stay away from humans ....
srobak
srobak -3
if you're scared - you stay away from those you are scared of.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

[This poster has been suspended.]

ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 2
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 6
Bonnie, his title and name is President Biden. His predecessor’s title and name was President Trump, and before him was President Obama, etc. Whoever holds that title is, by law the Commander in Chief, stated in Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution, which I have sworn to support and defend, and bear true faith and allegiance in. So, yes, I support President Biden. In 2024, I will support whoever is inaugurated after that election.

Are you so insecure in your position, that you have to tell anyone that may disagree with you to go away. Would you like FA to ban anyone that doesn’t follow your beliefs? Would you support that as a public policy? Anyone that disagrees with you, or your political leaders should silenced? I spent the first part of my adult life defending against a government that would do that. I suggest you look up the USSR. See how they handled political dissent. Look at Myanmar (Burma), Iran, DPRK, Saudi Arabia.

Do you even see the irony of fighting a vaccine that President Trump called his vaccine, still refers to it as his vaccine, as a result of operation Warp Speed?
watkinssusan
there is a distinction between an employer telling you you MUST be vaccinated against a pandemic virus,especially if you are a pilot and travel around to various places a lot,and them telling you, for example that you have to jump off a bridge into a river to show you can survive!pilots and flight attendants as well a ground personnel on many carriers are required to be vaccinated if they travel the world so to speak,and just MIGHT for example, come in contact with people who have mumps or measles or smallpox or any other contagious disease..!betrayal is NOT a word i would use to describe United airlines health requirements!
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 12
As well said as anyone else here. It doesn’t really matter what the business is, there will always be “tails” that try to wag the dog! Dogs without tails do just fine, the same can’t be said about the tails. If you don’t want to to be an employee, then become an employer…….then you will learn all about rules, mandates, etc. Personally, I lean towards calling the vaccine (any vaccine) a “responsibility” rather than a mandate.
preditor4u
James Cartwright -2
Including one that only got approval for 180 days off trials? Yeah I’ll pass until it’s proven.
TexasKid747
JW Wilson 3
Did United require FLU vaccinations in January 2020?
srobak
srobak 3
now now - this is no time to go confusing the issue with facts.
garritt
garritt -2
who cares ...get your vac. or go away
srobak
srobak -2
no. if you're scared you go away.
srobak
srobak 1
all those other vaxxes have had years of trials and thorough testing before being released upon the public - or employees, let alone mandated or forced. did you know that the polio vax had 2 failed attempts that were yanked back because they had high side-effect rates? and let's not forget the gulf war vax...
garritt
garritt -1
TimJahns
TimJahns 2
All three vaccines in used in the United States have been administered 100's of millions of times. If there was a severe side affect, it would be known by now. Long term affect of mRNA (used in Phizer and Madonera) is not yet fully known, but given the sheer numbers of people who have been inoculated, it is likely a trend would emerge. So far the vaccines have been proven (surprisingly) safe and effective.

Interestingly, when Phizer finally releases it's "cure" (in the form of a pill), I wonder whether it will be so poorly received by the anti-vax crowd. Guh.
srobak
srobak -2
it is well known - you just haven't been paying attention. Did you know that the vax is on the table in 3 different countries to be outlawed because of the significant side effects it is causing?
TimJahns
TimJahns 3
That was AstraZeneca's vaccine, which is not sold/administered in the U.S. (Various countries around the world are using different vaccines.) In any event, it is too early to say whether the blood clotting was indeed a side-effect of said vaccine. So far *billions* of people have been inoculated with various different vaccines, and it has (again) been surprisingly safe and effective.

I just came across an article at "www.oneindia.com" that says that 100 nations have agreed to mutual recognition of COVID vax certificates with India. The vaccine *has* to be doing something write. Peoples reluctance to get it is just plain stupid.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 21
If it becomes an employment requirement then get vaccinated. If you refuse for whatever reason, which you are free to do………go work for Air India or some other carrier.
srobak
srobak -1
it should never become an employment requirement
geroldn
geroldn 14
By vaccinating you are protecting others around you, possibly at some risk to yourself. The Bible teaches you to protect the weak and to help your community, whether it is inconvenient, uncomfortable or even dangerous. There is nothing about your 'rights' taking precedence over others.
cgwng
Alain Duncan 4
You probably aren't protecting others at all, according to recent data. The states and countries with highest vax rates are seemingly having the worst breakouts.
Kensterfly
Ken Thompson 4
The ones in ICUs on ventilators, and the ones dying are unvaccinated, in the vast majority of cases, despite was you’re reading in QAnon Weekly.
cgwng
Alain Duncan 2
Ken, I agree with your statement. Unvaxed have a slightly higher risk of serious complications/death. What I'm referring to is the trend that locations with higher vax rates have higher infection rates over all. This suggests that whatever protection the vaccine might provide to the recipient, it's not stopping the spread of covid and might even be encouraging it.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 2
If the vaccination works why are you worried about what the unvaccinated do?
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -2
Works with all the deaths from it. Lethal injection
skinutca
skinutca 2
Bonnie you seem like a poor little sheep. Please try thinking instead of blindly following an ignorant cabal.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 1
There’s a UK study that shows that infection rates are higher in the vaccinated rather than the unvaccinated. If you did any research you might find some truth here.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

mgbogue1
Mike Bogue 11
Please explain why you feel it doesn't work.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95119

"Deaths among the unvaccinated peaked the week starting August 8, at 13.23 per 100,000 population, while deaths among those who had been vaccinated with one of the three products remained under four per 100,000 that week."

I'd say the science proves it works just fine.
dnorthern
dnorthern -5
I’d suggest that without statistical variation analysis, claims you make are unreliable at best.
Cleffer
Cleffer 2
I don't agree with this, but I would agree that a secondary, unbiased and controlled study validation would be a tremendous thing to have. There have been a lot of documented cases of COVID-related deaths than have been attributed to the extenuating circumstances rather than the disease itself (e.g. a MRSA infection from an oxygen mask), or perhaps a death caused by a car accident where the victim was found positive with COVID. Attempts to get a "Watch Dog" neutral oversight group have been shot down on multiple occasions.
srobak
srobak -1
this kind of bs covid reporting has even been admitted to openly by the very politicians and health officials doing the reporting, themselves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9Ci2PZKZg
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -3
Where and who posts these “numbers”? Thanksgiving fools hoping to visit grandma next week. Go United pilots
cordellsd
Shaun Cordell 6
doesn't work, got COVID, fought it off on my own ... NEXT. Got the jab because my job required it, still got COVID again, fought it off again, so what, NEXT.
jdriskell
James Driskell 2
Maybe you are immunocompromised or the vaccine you got wasn't appropriate. Sorry to hear about your problems, but the various vaccines DO work in the general population. The science on this is correct.
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 3
Then why all the boosters?
jdriskell
James Driskell 3
Same reason you should get a flu shot every year. Vaccines give a level of protection but it doesn't always last for ever. The whole idea is if everybody became immune via vaccines, the virus wouldn't have a chance to mutate and continue to infect. Basic science!
Cleffer
Cleffer 6
First of all, that's NOT the reason you get a flu shot every year. The reason you get a flu shot every year is that there are different variants of the flu that are prominent each season.

Every year, the CDC predicts which variant will be most prevalent that "Flu" season. On this choice, influenza vaccines are produced and distributed. Sometimes the CDC is correct, sometimes they are not and another influenza strain is the most prevalent. The "vaccinated" strain is still repressed however, despite the most prevalent one infecting the population, vaccinated or not. Sometimes at a reduced rate, sometimes not.

In this case thus far, people who have had COVID are not getting it a second time (nor spreading it), despite the incredible infection rates. This includes me. I originally had it in March of 2020. Since then, I have been directly exposed to more than 20 people how have tested positive ("exposed" by Department of Health standards), I have flown on over 40 commercial flights through many major airports and have spent countless hours in airports during layovers.

Blanket policies are stupid because there is always the "Law of Unintended Consequences" that will eventually rear its ugly head.

And I would hate to be the person who ends up with an issue like so many other people who are first to end up in line for the next "Awesome" drug and later end up in a class action lawsuit, because right now, you'll have no one to take the blame or provide financial compensation for your injuries except yourself.
srobak
srobak 1
agree mostly with you - except people have been getting infected twice.
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 1
NEWS FLASH! Vaccinated people can spread the virus just as much as non vaccinated people.
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
NEWS FLASH #2! Vaccinated people are 1/10th as likely to catch it as those who are not, so their overall chances of spreading it are a *lot* less.

NEWS FLASH #3! The antibodies created by the vaccine (and also by naturally surviving an infection) wear off over time. Booster shots are (and will be) necessary.
srobak
srobak 0
that is straight tripe. For 5 years I worked for a major hospital in chicago, in a detached building (the datacenter was across the interstate from the main hospital campus). It was a requirement to get the flu jab every year - and every year I got sick as a dog and laid out within a week to 10 days of getting the jab. each time it was quite severe and I ended up having to take 3 to 5 days off from work.

prior to that I would get the flu maybe once every 5-8 years, and mildly at that. never had the flu jab.

in the years since I left the hospital I again have never received the flu jab and have not once had the flu.

Until mid October of 2019 when I caught covid. Yes - 2019. Checked every single box of the symptoms list (once those were known) and at an intensity level that I had never experienced before. 7 straight days of barely being able to move. Toughed it out, figuring it was just the flu - lived on sudafed, nyquil and zinc like always - and went to see the doc a few days after to discuss it and the prolonged respiratory challenges I was having. They took blood and said it was just a severe flu.

Thankfully - they keep the blood samples. When the covid scare came out a few months later - I contacted the doc again and said hey - you guys keep the samples right? Ok - so now that the covid antibodies are identified can you run my sample again and tell me the results?

The antibodies were present. Haven't been sick a day since then.
TimJahns
TimJahns 0
If you caught it in Oct 2019, you'd likely be Patient Zero. According to a March 2020 article in WebMD, the virus was first identified in China in late Dec 2019...

"The new coronavirus epidemic that started in Wuhan, China, in late December is now in dozens of countries, including the United States. Here are answers to key questions about the virus, including how to protect yourself and what to expect."
srobak
srobak 0
that - like most other things surrounding reports of this virus - is a lie. It was here long before I got it. China sat on it for months - hoping it wouldn't take off. When it eventually did - they had to come clean. Want to guess what major Asian airport I went through in early Oct 2019, and which major airliner I was on?
preditor4u
James Cartwright 3
Then why are you afraid of someone not having it?
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
Explain then, why covid deaths are higher in 2021 (so far) than for all of last year

This phenomenon, incidentally, is true across many first world countries
preditor4u
James Cartwright 4
Exactly and highly vaccinated countries are seeing the same thing. Nice to see someone else with critical thinking skills in a cesspool of non thinkers.
jmadunleavy
John D 3
The vast majority of deaths are from unvaccinated. Jeebus how hard is this?
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 3
Jeebus, you are uninformed. Vaccinated people are still dying from COVID 19. You want to qualify death? Wow. Death is death.
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
How hard is it to provide a citation supporting your claim? You made the claim, you are obligated to support your hypothesis. If you can’t provide a citation your comment is hyperbole Don’t be lazy
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
Please provide a citation that is supported as statistically significant

Also should be risk adjusted to account for patient comorbidities.

Otherwise you are a blabbering idiot.
andyc852
Andy Cruickshank 1
You always terminate your posts with an insult (I recall that I am moron). Your's is not the only opinion worth hearing and as I recall you are not the opinion police.
dnorthern
dnorthern 3
I recall you to be a moron as well

Glad your memory is as good as it is
jdriskell
James Driskell 0
The is no such thing as competing opinions on this. The science provides the facts, anything else is junk!
dnorthern
dnorthern 1
Competing opinions are indeed a part of science. The scientific method - hypothesis, observation, testing and measuring are part of that process

Science is.never settled
waypoint66
David Rice 0
There is no reason for name calling, even the conditional type. Please reconsider your approach and try to respectful of others with alternate opinions. I’m sure you remember this direction from grade school.
srobak
srobak 1
dnorthern
dnorthern -1
You mean children? They may be the chief vectors
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
Btw. My citation regarding YOY deaths is covid19.health data.org. Data maintained by Iniv of Washington/IHME.

SINCE I ASKED YOU TO CITE YOUR CLAIM, I am obligated to cite my source as well.

So here it is. Waiting on you now
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -4
Yes “it works”. Brandon manipulation of the weak minded sure works!
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
In the U.S. there's a 1906 SCOTUS (that's Supreme Court of the United States, for the non-"Brandon" minded) ruling that authorizes the government to mandate vaccines to the hesitant/reluctant (and/or just plain misguided to published, verifiable, readily-available facts, which they so regularly dismiss as politically motivated -- guh!!!!!!). Given the politically charged (on one side) situation, and that the current SCOTUS favors the party of the idiots behind the anti-vax movement, I'll be very curious to see if this 1906 ruling is overturned. Interesting times ahead.
srobak
srobak -2
you are not protecting anyone by weakening the strong.
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 -3
Another Pollyanna here. Yawn
bdjam
Brian James 5
Unfortunately there is a paywall on the article. But I'm sure Southwest would hire them since there seems to be some lack of vaccine and masking requirements there.

As an adult you make choices. Much of corporate America are following the capitalist models and are mandating vaccines for their employees because it's good business. I've switched flights from American and Southwest to United for that reason.

If people don't like this, they should do the capitalist thing and take their money elsewhere. As far as the employees go, there are conditions that have to be met in order to get a paycheck and part of any employee contract with an employer states that.
srobak
srobak 2
all air carriers who hold federal contracts have the vax requirement. EO 14042
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 2
Southwest also has a vaccine requirement.
skinutca
skinutca 1
They do, but it is apparently loosely enforced and exemptions are given to almost anyone who requests.
matthewj34
Matthew Lymer 2
Remember when flightaware was about Aviation and not politics?
dnorthern
dnorthern 2
Yeah. That was before politics and politicians insinuated themselves, unnecessarily, into aviation

There you have it
sgbelverta
sharon bias 2
The part of this issue that has been well hidden is what Work Comp carriers dictate to companies they insure. If a person catches Covid from an unvaccinated coworker, would lost wages and medical expenses fall under a work comp incident? Can a Work Comp carrier demand that all employee's be vaccinated for Covid if the companies want their policy renewed? Work Comp is not something most folks think about unless they are injured on the job. The premiums are paid by the employer. The cost to avoid increased premiums might be worth the hassle of refusing to let some employee's work.
dwbailey
Daniel Bailey 10
They made their choice and can live with it instead of crying to a propaganda rag about it. They’re free to practice their “deeply held beliefs” but not put others at risk in the process. Have no sympathy for them at all.
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 5
You clearly dont follow the science as much as you follow the religion of the DNC. Vaccinated people CAN STILL SPREAD the virus. Vaccinated people CAN STILL GET the virus.
cgwng
Alain Duncan 2
Even more-so than the unvaxed, apparently, looking at recent trends.
Kensterfly
Ken Thompson 1
You need to find another source for news and medical advice besides the latest Q-drop.
cgwng
Alain Duncan 5
I'm referring to data from the CDC and the EU. I don't even know what this Q-drop you are referring to is.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 2
People are idiots. They have no clue what to think except for what the media gives them. They somehow missed the skills class for critical thinking.
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
So what, you're going to dismiss everything (including published research papers, advice from well-known medical institutions such as the Mayo Clinic, plus medical advice from the *vast* majority of Medical Doctors in the world) just because it comes from a new organization with a "bent" you do not like???
frequentflyguy
I was jabbed, still caught it. Albeit greatly decreased symptoms but still caught it. Since the jab, tiredness, occasional brain fog where none exisited before. THERE'S THE SCIENCE! Not for my pilots thank you.
pthomas745
Pa Thomas 9
The Epoch Times? H ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaH ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaH ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaH ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The Epoch Times is a far-right[12] international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement.[17] The newspaper, based in New York City, is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty (NTD) Television.[18] The Epoch Times has websites in 35 countries but is blocked in mainland China.[19]
jeffinsydney
jeff slack 1
Another thank you to someone (pa Thomas) that obviously reads; often I come here and read so much right wing conservative uneducated opinion .........
frequentflyguy
So you follow Brandon right over the cliff..
dnorthern
dnorthern 0
Well said Jeff. You take in the whole of it from msm and enjoy every column inch
preditor4u
James Cartwright 0
I wonder why they are banned in China. Maybe because it’s a freedom issue? When anything promoted the freedoms we Americans take for granted it gets banned in China. It isn’t rocket science.
srobak
srobak 1
china blocks everything. I have been through there several times... cannot get the facebook, cannot get to flightaware, cannot get the google, cannot get to nbc, twitter, fox... none of it.

conservative or whackadoo.

the only thing I could get to without tunneling to the US first was microsoft.com
srobak
srobak -2
considering just about everything else is far-left and is also blocked in china - I am ok with this.
patpylot
patrick baker 4
you want to keep your life and access to United airliner cockpits, this is the ticket: the jab. I do not understand any religious exemption request when viewed against the hundreds of thousands of covid-related deaths and the millions of covid infection cases worldwide. Somewhere in that bible you thump upon your chests is the phrase "render unto caesar......" So render already, keep flying the next generation of boeings, your integrity will be intact, at least from my viewpoint in the peanut gallery.
Cleffer
Cleffer 8
Because one of the founding tenants of this country was religious freedom. I think that pretty much sums it up.
mgbogue1
Mike Bogue 11
Yes, every American has the right to make their own decision as to whether to vaccinate or not. By the same token, employers have the right to maintain a workforce that has proven immunity to a disease. Freedom, in any form, always has a cost.
srobak
srobak -4
the vaccine does not make you immune to the disease. this is the inherent flaw in the approach. having the vax does not help at the end of the day.
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
No it does not make you immune, but it sure as hell makes you a ton less likely (as in an order of magnitude) to get seriously ill and/or die from it. The vaccine can also help *contain* this virus (as vaccines are able to do with any virus) so that it cannot spread to other people because it cannot find a new host (i.e. person) who does not have antibodies for (i.e. resistance to) the virus. It's called "herd immunity" and it involves relatively simple math, and also proven science.
srobak
srobak 0
tell that to all the vaxxed people in the hospital with covid right now. some of them for their 2nd time
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 6
Freedom of religion is one of the principles on which our country was founded, but it also has its limits. In Reynolds v. United States, the Supreme Court rejected a claim of religious freedom and upheld a statute that criminalized bigamy.

None of the freedoms in the Bill of Rights is unlimited; they each have a point at which the right gives way. In the Jacobson v. Massachusetts, the plaintiff stated they had a right to decline the small pox vaccine, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes countered "[My] right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.”
JacksonRentsAtlanta
Jackson Franco 1
Hey, Holmes, vaccinated pilots can still spread the virus.
skinutca
skinutca 1
True, that is well known and understood. What is your point?
dnorthern
dnorthern -1
You should lose your job. Simply for being an arrogant azzhat
Cleffer
Cleffer 1
FYSA - The "Well said" button is the little up arrow over there ---->

;)
shawntfs
Shawn Salter -1
Patrick, the reason you don't understand is that you are ignorant, that's the short answer. The long answer is that these vaccines aren't really vaccines, for multiple reasons. You've been duped. You should be angry at your government, not the people trying to stay healthy by avoiding these clot shots.
srobak
srobak -1
USPOP: 332,920,000 (census.gov)
USCOVID: 46,800,000 (cdc.gov)

14.05% of population is infected. 14 in every 100 people.

USCOVDEAD: 759,000 (cdc.gov)

1.62% of infected die. 98.38% of those infected survive. 3 of every 200 infected die (rounded up)
0.22% of USPOP die. 99.78% of all people in the US survive. 1 out of every 500 people die. (rounded up)

Simple. Basic. Math.
bobtheman
Tim Smith 2
Pilots are special and they deserve special treatment, your just like everyone else and there’s lots of people just waiting to take your place.
TimJahns
TimJahns 0
Pilots are indeed special, but employees. No employee is indispensable. If the pandemic ever ends (which a vaccine makes *much* more likely), then that will be obvious. If not, then will likely face COVID-generated pilot shortages due to illness, death, etc. Doesn't anyone out there understand the concept behind herd immunity and the role vaccines play in it????
srobak
srobak 0
the "vaccine" has only resulted in an increase of the pandemic - not an ending - or even a trend towards ending. as such - it is quite plainly not a vaccine.

there have been MANY more pilot shortages due to firings, furloughs and sidelinings of perfectly healthy yet unvaxxed pilots than there have been from illness and death.

Doesn't anyone out there understand the reality of a 98.38% (of those infected) and a 99.78% (of the us population) survival rate - even before the vaccine played any role in it?
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
Srobak: Vaccines need a defined (mathematically determinable) amount of participants receiving the vaccination to contain a pandemic. (Please look up "herd immunity" if that does not seem right to you.) Containment did not happen primarily due to social media meddling in a highly charged political environment. Seriously, if enough people had gotten vaccinated (world-wide) this pandemic would be OVER by now. (Or contained with the U.S. if we could keep out unvaccinated denizens of the rest of the world.)

Increase????? We'd be in a huge world of hurt right now without a vaccine. Most of the people spreading it now (10 to 1) are the unvaccinated. Most of the people *dying* right now are the unvaccinated (11 to 1). One could say "survival of the fittest", i.e. those surviving are the ones smart enough to get vaccinated, but it's just tragic all the misinformation being spread out there that is scaring people away from being vaccinated and therefore helping out the rest of the population who cannot (for whatever reason) get vaccinated or for whom the vaccine is not very effective (such as the immunocompromised).

Fortunately, there is legal precedent to end anti-vaxx campaigns. In 1906 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that vaccines can be made mandatory. If the current court reverses that decision, It'll be a *damn* shame (for all of us).

I'd say "your mileage may vary", but you're just plain misguided, with a solidified position in your mind formed by misinformation disseminated by attention seekers, many politically motivated. Check your sources. Someday they will be laid bare as what they are: garbage!!
srobak
srobak 0
we were spreading it less before we had the vax than we are now that we do have the vax. vaxxed people are in the hospital with the 'vid - some for the 2nd time.
hannauehre
Hanna Uehre 2
Look no further than this was written in the Epoch Times.. oh boy
srobak
srobak -2
better than the whackadoo msnbc and twitterverse
frequentflyguy
Please explain "the science" of increased vaccination rates/mask mandates/lock downs:
- More people died of COVID so far this year than 2020
- Vaccinated people are getting infected
- booster shots
- side effects causing circulatory and cognitive issues
dnorthern
dnorthern -6
If the vaccine is so effective explain why cv deaths in 2021 are equal to or higher than the deaths in 2020.
mgbogue1
Mike Bogue 5
Try again...if you look at the statistics, the vast majority of Covid deaths are among the UNvaccinated.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95119

"Deaths among the unvaccinated peaked the week starting August 8, at 13.23 per 100,000 population, while deaths among those who had been vaccinated with one of the three products remained under four per 100,000 that week."
dnorthern
dnorthern -5
Try again. What is the statistical significance for what you state.

Statistics are simply not X divided by Y. Well, perhaps for the uneducated masses it is.

And further, the flat data you profess is not risk adjusted to account for patient comorbidities in either population

You fall for the simplistic world view promoted and extolled by MSM that has become the pablum of the masses like yourself
shawntfs
Shawn Salter 0
Not true Mike. The definition of unvaccinated was changed so when they say someone died of covid and was unvaccinated, it simply means he may have had only 1 shot or had both shots but less than 2 weeks ago. You are being lied to by mainstream media and your government.
shoepuke
shoepuke 3
because most are not vaccinated?
dnorthern
dnorthern 3
ADXbear
ADXbear 1
Your choice, what you want us to be sympathetic.. free country guys.. there are many job openings on the ground.. see ya.
srobak
srobak 0
and there are plenty in the air as well.
Airgoddess1
Airgoddess1 1
I support our pilots. Go by the book next week!
skinutca
skinutca 2
Me too, and a massive majority of them followed the science and are vaccinated. Most airlines are reporting well above 95% vaccination rates for pilots. That comes close to the 99% for doctors.
srobak
srobak -1
again - that is because they fired, sidelined or furloughed the ones who are not - for both docs and pilots. this does not reflect accuracy in %. Sorry.
Ricovandijk
Rico van Dijk -9
One can fly around the world for decades without TBC vaccination, I would understand if they started to mandate that, but for covid? I really don’t understand what the fuzz is all about. I have recovered twice on my own, it’s for 99% of the people nothing more than a mild flu. Btw I did get vaccinated ONLY to keep my job, not for any medical reason, how ridiculous is that?
pthomas745
Pa Thomas -5
The Herman Cain Award Awaits!
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/new/
ghstark
Greg S 20
Imagine being such a shithead that you take joy in someone else's death, their only crime being that they disagree with you politically.
Cleffer
Cleffer 14
Unfortunately, toxic behavior has become the norm and not the exception.
jeffinsydney
jeff slack -1
award it twice, one for the grave marker and one for the relatives left behind mantlepiece
srobak
srobak 0
^^^^ ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard - allow me to introduce you to you captain for this flight - Captain First Class Jackass Jeff. Enjoy your flight!
srobak
srobak 0
now now - this is no time to go introducing facts into the discussion.... confuses the issue too much for the whackadoo simpletons.
jhakunti
jhakunti 0
this is exactly why corporations exist so that where government has to more or less represent all, the totalitarian leaders can enshrine their wicked ideas on other through the subservience of employment.

the only true way is to leave the employer since afterall my mantra is if you ain't f*in/feedin/funding my bills don't tell me how to live. And since and employer is feedin and fundin yah, if you don't like his demands then go make your way and leave his alone.
waypoint66
David Rice 4
Many thanks for sharing your views. However, please note that corporations exist to return a profit to their shareholders, nothing more, nothing less. Corporations are not jobs programs, at least that is still the case here in the USA. It is a shame you feel subservient to your employer, but that need not be the case here in the USA. Incidentally, that is what many of us are trying to preserve. Kyle and Stephanie certainly understand this and remain free to work wherever they wish. My best wishes to you and your family during this holiday season.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 1
If you had any idea how the airline pilot jobs worked. Not only for pay but quality of life you wouldn’t feel the same. Their seniority and pay start all over if they as you put it just go find another job. To give you an idea it’s going from a well paid job back to the minimums of living again. Something no one should have to do on an unproven vaccine.
boughbw
boughbw 0
Surely this story must have been carried somewhere other than the Epoch Times. I understand biased sources quite well and the normal ones can easily be dealt with, but this one is pure propaganda. This Squawk should be removed and replaced with a story from elsewhere if people are keen to discuss it.
srobak
srobak 2
you must be dreaming if you think the MSM would ever carry such a story. it's not propaganda if it is the truth. propaganda is almost always a complete and total lie.
boughbw
boughbw -1
You again? Say hello to all your Falun Gong buddies. I should have known.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

shawntfs
Shawn Salter 0
There is no good reason to take these experimental jabs. Firstly, they will not bring about the promised herd immunity because the vax recipient can still get the virus and spread it to others. Also, the protection they provide, reduced symptoms of covid19 when infected, is limited to only 3 to 6 months maximum. The vax recipient must undergo "booster" shots every 6 months for eternity to maintain the "protection". Thirdly, the potential side effects are horrendous and are being hidden from the public by the mainstream media and governments. They have actually changed the definition of 'vaccinated' to further hide the vaccine damaged from being reported properly.

The left-wing loons that are ridiculing people in these threads for not taking an experimental vaccine, that the companies that manufacture them are not liable for death or dismemberment for, are irrational and have seemingly lost the ability for critical thinking.
preditor4u
James Cartwright 0
Since we have so many people trying to say the issues here are all coming from the unvaccinated. The UK just completed a study showing the vaccinated are the showing higher infection rates than the unvaccinated.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1025358/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-41.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0LcjMyobgMdQwdom4zW4HXRY2GGkTU96SYEKJgvhY-BOy3fWe-QekrqQ4
TimJahns
TimJahns 1
WHAAAAAT???? Here's the last line of the first paragraph from the link you sited: "They conclude that overall, the benefits of COVID-19 vaccines outweigh any potential risks (2)."
zuluzuluzulu
zuluzuluzulu -1
the reality is the vaccinated are ignoring the unvaccinated and their freedoms. covid 19 is now a disease of cowards and the ignorant.

To them, I wish a Happy Thanksgiving! Hug everyone, share wet kisses talk loudly with food in your mouths and enjoy the surge!

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