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  • 103

(Video) "Crosswind turboprop torment"

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"More BHXwinds action (X-winds at BHX airport), as Dash-8 and ATR twin-engines have a difficult time coping with gusts and windshear." (www.youtube.com) Mehr...

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preacher1
preacher1 6
I saw one set of spoilers deployed by one of these planes. Do they just not have them on the turboprops because of the slow approach speed or what? Look like they would have definitely been useful in that wind
linbb
linbb 1
Looked a little exiting on a few,crab angle was quite high on one or two. Wonder if the approach speed was just a little too low for the wind and made for the high crab angle? Noted the spoiler deploy on one but not on the other type. Just flew on a Q400 had a 27knot cross wind on landing at Redmond Or they have quite an abrupt action when touching down. Quite a bit more than I expected the 737 Alaska I flew on didn't do that. By the way what a nice interior and seating that Boeing Alaska had along with such a nice cabin crew.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Well they say the Q400's aren't your daddy's turboprop. Are spoilers just not on there or are they not being used in favor of the high crab angle and slow speed.. Seriously, idk.
spatr
spatr 3
Can't speak about the Dash, but I have tons of ATR 42 and 72 time. The ATR has spoilers that assist the ailerons for roll, but they don't have anything to kill lift. I guess the reasoning is that the props going into reverse will disrupt the air over the wing enough. The main thing is to keep flying the plane until it is stopped. By that, I mean to keep the xwind aileron correction in fully! The ATR main gear can take a beating the video proves it. Looking at the vid, some pilots tried a nice flare at a normal altitude. Most ATR guys I knew just drove the plane onto the ground carrying a lot of speed and then having the FO crank full aileron deflection in during the rollout. It was actually pretty fun, in a sick ,twisted way.
preacher1
preacher1 3
I'll bet I haven't got a dozen hours in an ATR. AA was running out their last 42's in 09 when I first retired. We had been doing some RJ stuff between DWF and FSN and they started throwing them in for a trip or two each day. PITA compared to their ERJ's. They eventually went to Abilene or further on South and the ERJ's came back.
preacher1
preacher1 3
DFW; dyslexic old fool. LOL
yr2012
matt jensen 1
Exactly
linbb
linbb 2
The big problem with crab is, when do you kick it out and what is going to be the result?
preacher1
preacher1 4
USAF got it right, although with the tail size they had to, on the BUFF. You could set the wheels on the runway heading and go up to 45degegress I think with the bird.
30west
30west 1
I can't speak for all the regional TP's, but I flew the DHC-7 and the J-31 before graduating to the majors. The Dash had spoilers and the Jetstream had lift dump (flaps going from full to about 80-90 degrees, can't recall the exact deflection). In the video, I saw all the Dash's spoilers deployed once the a/c were firmly on the ground. I had to watch it a couple of times, some were very hard to see.
nasdisco
Chris B 5
Dang. Thats one of the most undulating runways I've ever seen.
rossmans
ROSS MANSELL 1
Naa! it was the telephoto lens ...not like that..I worked there in ATC

Preacher:...The old turbo Bristol Britannia had a castoring undecart that could be off set 45 degs.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Did not know that. It's flying days were before my time and the 707, among others, killed it. I am told it was a nice plane.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 3
Bet the "Biz" bag was overflowing that day.
Davepierce629
Dave Pierce 3
These pilots definatly need to work on their crosswind landings, like keep the wing down into the wind and fly it on and get off the power, I've made numerous landings in 15 to 22 knot crosswind landings in great falls mt, one of the windiest city's in America, also in small plane never use full flaps in a crosswind, if you do you might find yourself blown off the runway during a flare.

[This poster has been suspended.]

elbigote
These Pilots...should be awarded !!!!
konatom
T Economou 1
40 degree crab needed? Old adage.."Discretion is the better part of valor".
bobhirst
Robert Hirst 1
It kind of looks a bit like the approaches to Kai Tak in Hong Kong. There, you had heavies coming in at those crazy angles and water on three sides. I'm not a pilot but I remember some of the approaches at night when you could look into the windows of buildings that were at your height before making the dogleg right. Scary!
preacher1
preacher1 1
Sad Part is, on here somewhere is a FedEx MD-11 that did KaiTak 5 days before it closed. It's about a 15 minute video, arrival on the checkerboard but shot by a guy in the jump seat. Doesn't show anything inside the cockpit and that's where all the fun was. LOL
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Preacher- You remember my experience with"Kai-Tak and the Checkerboard. You're only 500ft from the "wing tip" to the highrise apartments. Right turn from the "Checkerboard" and you are on a "wing and a prayer". Another "Biz Bag" moment.The "Pucker effect".
preacher1
preacher1 1
yep, there'll never be another like it, Thank God. LOL John Donaldson had family there in Kowloon and was in one of those apartments. He said you could count the rivets. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
I am like you though Dee, even though it is no longer open, I think it should go into every SIM program out there. If our young guns can get in there, we don't have to worry about them anywhere else. There were quite a few crashes over the years but I cannot find one caused by the approach to 13 or the airport. I guess everybody was so up on their game going in there. Departure on 13 was pretty well normal but that approach was really something.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Being closed for 16 years, I really can't say you guns as after 16 years, you have many veterans. Dang that makes me feel old. LOL
preacher1
preacher1 1
Young Guns
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Preacher- I feel fortunate to have had that "Kai Tak approach experience. Not many can fully understand what a challenging approach it was. A true test to the aviators...especially with the extreme crosswinds. No approach was the "norm". And yes. Kai Tak should be loaded in the "Sims". If that's not an educational tool...don't know what is. Only heard of one approach that ended up in the bay. They just got their feet wet but had to shut down 13. Feeling old? Yes. But I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Those were the days.
mariofer
mariofer 1
Who needs Six Flags when you have BHX?
cabbepe
Bertil Pereson 1
The Dash 8 have spoilers. Maybe theh don't use them until later. The sequences are short so we don't what happens egen they straighten up.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, I have very little turboprop time and what I do have is in the older ATR's and they were a trip. Just couldn't see them. If that'd been me, I'd have flew it to the ground, dumped the lift and been done with it, but that is one of the differences in in jet and turboprop. Sparkie, don't jump in there and lecture. You know what I'm talking about and so do I. LOL
oowmmr
oowmmr 1
Exciting stuff.
ExCalbr
Victor Engel 1
This wing-mounted wheels seem very spindly, especially in the first clip where you can see the port one springing sideways.
ExCalbr
Victor Engel 1
Pretty severe, but the camera angle and lens selection make it look even more so.
KDSM
Tim Swift 1
The last guy that came in on the video seemed to have the right approach. Not sure it was the smartest but most effective. Come down hard and fast and not float.
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 1
He seemed to basically fly it right into the ground....scary but effective.
sgbelverta
sharon bias 1
Well, my Twitter followers like the video.
suejillings
Sue Jillings 1
It looks a dangerous challenge .... Must get the adrenaline going !
lynx318
lynx318 1
Drifting for pilots?
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
I'm not sure I've seen an approach where the PF has to look some thirty degrees to the left and maybe out the side window to track the center line.
Davepierce629
Dave Pierce 1
You look out the front window, look at the end of the runway, the left and the right sides make 90 degree angles towards one another, if they are the same size your on the center line, if not adjust your coarse left or right toward the smaller looking one until there the same size and you'll be right
on, on short final put in rudder and drop the wing into the wind and fly it on, in small aircraft in strong cross winds use no flaps, you should practice no flap landings.
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 1
I was being a little sarcastic.

When teaching, I pushed for strong crosswind opportunities even for primary students. It wasn't so they could do them all the time but to that it's possible with skill and experience when no other option is available in a forced landing situation.
jepolch
jepolch 1
I like flugsnug's videos a lot. Also check out cargospotter on Youtube. Those guys have some amazing video gear, not to mention good locations.
dodger4
dodger4 1
Those landings demonstrate pilots who are completely out of their depth with manual flying. They are obviously way too hot even with a gust factor allowed for, leaving power on during the flare, and lack of assertiveness with the controls. Unfortunately too many pilots lack the experience to be flying in those conditions (assuming the winds WERE within the limits of the plane). It's a disgrace to our profession and the industry that these events are caught on cam and subsequently broadcast all over YouTube. Not to mention the horrible stresses on the airframe and gear.
Davepierce629
Dave Pierce 2
Just because they have a pilot license doesn't mean there good pilots, ever know someone that's been driving cars all their life but still can't drive worth the dam. Same some pilots.
Davepierce629
Dave Pierce 1
Dodger 4 is a 100% right about these pilots, I wouldn't want to ride with them, if they can't handle a cross wind what happens in a emergency?
dtw757
mike SUT 1
Doesn't anybody teach "bottom wing, top rudder" anymore? Make the crosswind correction out on short final, fly the aircraft onto the deck upwind wheel first and keep the aileron in after touchdown to full deflection. Gets rid of all that wiggle waggle in the flare, or roll out.
preacher1
preacher1 4
Your 1st line pretty much says it all. You ask a younger group that question and get the deer in the headlights look with a HUH behind it. Some have had the savvy to learn from the older heads and others will say that's not how it's done. Personally, in the crosswinds shown, what works is how it's done.
linbb
linbb 1
While I never few anything larger than a C337 I always used bottom wing top rudder. Was checking out in a low wing AC one day and the instructor got in my face bad about almost touching the wing tip in a cross wind landing. I in turn taxied over and shut down he asked why I just said am done with you. By the way my landing was straight ahead and very nice all the way to the gate each time.
nsabardin
nick sabardin 3
I totally agree with you Mike. When some under-the-wing jets cannot perform this technic because of engine clearance (ie 737), others have that option (A320, Q400). It is in my opinion the best way to avoid loss of control once on the runway due to multiple flight control input at what is a critical phase of flight.
At least, the first Q400 pilot had the good sense of aborting the landing when things started to go very wrong.
ToddBaldwin3
ToddBaldwin3 2
I was thinking the same thing. That was an excellent choice on the part of the Q400.
paultrubits
paul trubits 1
And that is why I sit in the back.
Shenandoah
David Webb 1
Short final's good, but just prior to touchdown for me and that goes for anything from my Christen Eagle to a 777. Add to that, "fly the plane all the way to the gate!" Lots of terrible technique demonstrated on this video.
jstefans
Justin Stefanski -2
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Hold on Tight, We're Landing Sideways.....

Planes attempt to land in dangerous cross-winds at Birmingham International Airport, UK.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/01/20/orig-natpkg-uk-plane-sideways-landing-wind.storyful

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