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  • 29

Delta Passenger Kicked Off Flight After Urgent Trip to the Restroom

Übermittelt
 
The way Kima Hamilton sees it, his urgent need to visit the restroom as a Milwaukee-bound Delta jet awaited takeoff was a misunderstanding blown all out of proportion. In fellow passenger Krista Rosolino's view, it was outrageous that Hamilton was kicked off the flight and that everyone else was forced to exit the plane when it returned to the gate in Atlanta. She took to social media to defend this man she didn't know. (www.jsonline.com) Mehr...

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supercruiser1946
supercruiser1946 12
This should have been a non event. I am a retired airline pilot (29 yrs). This situation occurred probably every week I went to work! The f/a calls the cockpit and says someone has to use the lavatory or went into the lav. We stop taxiing or don't taxi and ask the f/a to let us know when the passenger is back in their seat. They call us back in a few minutes to let us know, and that's the end of the situation. This has happened to me hundreds of times in my career, probably a lot of other airline pilots too. Never lost my place in line. Occasionally you would have to notify Atc that you could not taxi because a passenger was in the lavatory. No big deal. Never ever had a problem.
watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 3
sc1946..agree totally..
rhw2
Richard Wooten 2
Thanks supercruiser1946 for the Airline Pilots point of view.

I've see the very same thing happen, time an again, as a passenger on Delta at Hartsfield a number of years ago, when doing a lot of flying for my job.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
Thank you captain for backing me up..if FA's had done their job properly and notified the captain on the first go, like you said, end of discussion..a few on here think once you are on a taxiway, it's game over.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 -2
No, once you are asked to return to your seat and you get up again it's game over.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
If you can read, the FA's should have notified the captain the first time.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 0
Supercruiser1946- You are so right. It's "SOP". Pax gets up to use the "Blueroom"...on an avtive taxi..the Cabin Crew notifys the Cockpit. When the Pax is back and buckled in, we notify the Cockpit. Depending on conjestion in the line for takeoff we may lose our spot. Pax, if they have any common sense will have abluted priorto boarding.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
If I may add...if a Pax gets up on an active Taxi Way, the F/A's will notify the "Cockpit". The aircraft will come to a complete stop. Pending on the duration of this individuals duration in the "Loo"...we may lose that spot in line. Prior preperation prevents Taxi to Take-Off delays. Give the Crew Members a break. Treat them with respect. They are on board as Trained Safety Professionals. They are there to save your life in the event of an emergency situation. Flight attendants are not just "Trolley Dollies"! Respect , courtesy and patience as a Pax will get you alot. Pax have to get rid of this..."All about me" attitude and play by the rules.
ADXbear
ADXbear 15
There are rules and regs but ive seen way to many agressive power hungrey airline employees.. they cohld give a care about personal issues and make everything blown out of reason. As a former airline employee, ive long stopped flying and drive.. its really gotten out of hand, the terrorists accomplished their goal by changing oir society and freedoms.. shame
rhw2
Richard Wooten 1
I'm sorry to say it, but I agree 100 per cent.

Delta once upon a time was a good company with good people, I'm sorry to see them nose dive into the ground at 500 Knots.
a17958dsm
Dana Smith 4
It is ALWAYS the Captain's decision whether 'we wait' or 'they wait'. The flight attendant is just the communicator. Period. That being said- the flight attendant has control and ability of the WAY they communicate. Wonder how many flights they had done in the day before this happened.
bettiem
bettiem 4
Concern about being "that passenger" causes me to avoid fluids before a flight. Not healthy, I know, but otherwise anxiety about it would give me a constant "wanna pee" feeling. (Incidentally, why does the US call them "restrooms"? What's wrong with the word "toilet"?)
beilstwh
beilstwh 10
So if the passenger has Diarrhea and he soils himself, and the seat and it's running down the aircraft cabin floor then that's OK with the airlines? And in gods name, why did they have to deplane everyone just to kick the passenger off?
byoungblood
Bart Youngblood 7
That was my wife's comment when we talked about it yesterday. If someone poops or pees themselves, they're gonna turn the plane back to the gate if it is still on the ground. Doesn't take but a minute for the pilot to call ground and tell 'em they need to turn off on an adjacent taxiway or pull off in a holding area. Lord, we had a near emergency a few weeks ago in my airspace from some dude that partied a bit too hard in Vegas.

My wife had a similar incident when she was flying out to OKC to see me some years ago, and the flight got delayed coming out of ATL. She very politely asked the FA if she could get up, but it wasn't until a pilot deadheading back said something that they let her get up to go.

It has almost gotten to the point where the airlines have forgotten they're dealing with people. People who have bodily functions they can't just turn off on a whim, people who have to be places by a specific time. While those involved in recent incidents aren't blameless, maybe these incidents will get the industry to re-focus a little.
Jamesrgb
Rich James 3
There has to be some flexibility but if the plane has taxied to the runway, it is unsafe to use the bathroom as the clearance to take off could come at any second. It is very different if the door has closed and the plane has not started moving. Additionally a passenger who gets up and uses the bathroom id defiance of crew instructions is not only breaking the law but they are also voiding any claim for liability should they be injured. As a poster above said, if it really was a medical situation and they could not wait then they should have advised the flight attendant and the plane would have returned to the gate.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 1
They had to deplane everyone because he refused to leave, and last time they took an individual off involuntarily they ended up wrongfully on the internet.
a17958dsm
Dana Smith 3
You are wrong- they had to take everyone off due to a perceived 'threat'. Passengers are not allowed to 'gather by/ or in galleys or bathrooms' as a Federal Regulation. Flight attendants are TRAINED to consider only one of a multitude of 'events' that can be a potential threat situation. Given the CRAZY aspect of the last several weeks- ALL flight attendants are 'on guard' for potentially volatile situations. Everyone was removed to "CLEAR" the aircraft- and the TSA then decides whether the remainder of passengers will require a 'secondary' security check. The passengers were removed for THEIR safety as well as the crew.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 -1
From the article:
"Two Delta agents, first one and then another, approached Hamilton and told him to get his things and exit the plane. He knew they wouldn't let him back on, so he refused. The Rosolinos and other passengers whipped out their phones and took video of the encounters. Soon everyone was escorted off the plane."

He refused to leave so to defuse the situation they made everyone get off.
a17958dsm
Dana Smith 1
THEY DID NOT DEPLANE EVERYONE TO DIFFUSE. Whatever you believe from the news is not necessarily accurate. First, it was treated as a security issue- not necessarily a passenger issue. The fact is that before passengers were allowed back on- the TSA did an entire sweep of the aircraft.... points not presented in press. First and foremost is to provide for SAFETY. Second, passengers were removed AFTER the passenger was removed-- not to 'diffuse' to remove him.
angelruki
a p -1
Someone who needs to pee is a "security issue"... BRAVO !!
Delta, TSA and you are supposed to have brains, please use them.
Jamesrgb
Rich James 1
Someone suddenly has to go to the bathroom which a closed area where crew cannot see what they are doing. We have had shoe bombers and other crazies. When will people get that planes can be dangerous environments with the troubles we have and the requirement to obey crew instructions is for their safety. The guy started shooting at the baggage carousel in Florida because no one thought about domestic terrorists. Life is not a movie you can put on pause.
angelruki
a p 1
The Bathroom is a closed area at anytime and thats not a problem...
I agree, life is not a movie...and you have watched too many.
Jamesrgb
Rich James -1
Were they ambulance chasing?
Jamesrgb
Rich James 1
Surely passengers who are medically unwell should not be flying?
scott8733
scott8733 2
They shouldn't be flying....and don't call me Shirley. :)

Couldn't resist that one!
rhw2
Richard Wooten 0
Because someone at Delta had their head up their "SIX".
rapidwolve
rapidwolve -2
Be a pretty crappy situation wouldn't it..that and the fact he has now left biohazardous waste on the seat and floor.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 -4
The same "biohazard" that every janitor in the world deals with everyday. Proper PPE is gloves, and a bottle of disinfectant is all that is required for cleanup. We aren't exactly dealing with weaponized smallpox here.
watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 2
this whole conversation has gone on much too long considering the topic..there are also many commenting who are not aware of how it can and should be handled, as well as the fact that "clean up" of an accident involving bodily waste or fluids, requires more than a disinfectant spray..the ground crews must wear gloves,use hazmat procedures and also replace the seat cushions and the area of carpet where the person had an "accident", if its in the passenger compartment..its a bit different than a janitors mopping job and a few paper towels...
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
The proper disinfectant is not carried aboard an aircraft...only the maintenance and "toilet crew" have it...you really don't know what you are dealing with, anymore, when it comes to urine or fecees....Im also betting a lot these staunch supporters of the FA and not breaking the rules are probably the same 1's who cruise the interstate doing 90 in a 80 zone.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 0
Yes they have access to cleaning supplies, they are usually trained in first aid as well as universal precautions, but the whole incident could have been avoided if he had communicated with the crew, which he by his own admission did not do. He said the plane was not moving so he decided to get up. There are other aircraft moving by getting out of his seat had a collision however minor occurred he could have been injured or injured another passenger. It wasn't his call to make, as the flight attendants briefed before leaving the gate, if the seatbelt light is on you cannot leave your seat.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 0
You can't use the proper disinfectant, which is kept in maintenance and "waste facilities crew" lockers, in an enclosed area with passengers around!!
sparkie624
sparkie624 10
When you Gotta Go... You Gotta GO and sometimes you just can't hold it!
scott8733
scott8733 5
I hear ya Sparkie.

Used to be I could hold it clear across a transcon - now, years later I have a 1/4 cup of coffee and....father time catches up with everybody!
Jamesrgb
Rich James -1
Which is why French actor Gerrard Depardieu pee'd in a drinks container and everyone got all upset about that. If you have incontinence issues they are medical ways to cope with this when flying.
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 3
I hate flying any commercial airline for this very reason! Happened to be recently on AA! Landed in LAX for a change planes to Vegas.Before we started down from FL 32 K, I started to get up and go, however the Seat BELT light came on and we where still 100 miles out. No problem, I'll try and hold it (pee) until landing. After landing we where put on hold for some 20 minutes and the dam was about to burst. We moved aBOUT 100 YARDS AND and it was seriously flooding near by now. Asked the attendant to go and she said NO. Well 10 minutes later they said " we can't pull into gate because there was another aircraft there and nobody available to move it! (BULLSHIT), I begged again and told the attendant? it's now or in the seat your choice. She called Capt and said go so I hurried and was back in seat under 2 minutes!
Missed flight and had to take next flight. Thank you very much ATC!
Tired of being treated like a herd of cattle with every plane being over booked!
Add some planes to major routes dumb
asses!
PS: Before you non pilots jump on me, I don't drink alcohol or sodas before or during flights!
pilot62
Scott Campbell 10
What if it was an old lady, or diabetic, FA making a decision to blow it outta of proportion when she could've called the Captain n just said give us a minute if you can. Position in line is nothing compared to returning to the gate.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han -9
Yes and you think Airline won't lost a million return a plane back to gate and de-board everyone to drag a man off? They are kind enough to refund him part of his ticket.
The point is he didn't manage to tell or convince anyone he is in very urgent restroom issue. And as I read the article he seems never ring the bell to tell or yell at flight attendant about it before standing up. That alone already broke the rules. Rules are rules, and if anyone broke it without consequence, no one will follow that rule. If he wasn't punished, at least 100 passengers on that flight will now have the impression: "it is fine to disobey flight attendant." and that can propagate out of control very fast with internet.
a17958dsm
Dana Smith 5
Has anyone heard their mother say "Go before you get on?"
JimG4170L
Jim Goldfuss 4
Okay, devils advocate here, NOT an airline fan. SOme of us on this site "may" be pilots so they will understand. Where do you draw the line? Is it ok if the plane is taxiing for 20 minutes to disregard the sign? 30 minutes, 1 hour? As it stands now, an airliner has to return to the gate after I believe a 2 hour wait, should it be decreased for bathroom breaks? "Folks, we're number one for takeoff, but have to return to the gate because of an FAA regulation that requires us to return to the gate if we are not "lavatory accessible" within 30 minutes". (Hell, the normal taxi time at JFK could easily be 30 minutes)

The rule being enforced is an FAA regulation, not a Delta rule. If there was a Fed on board, an FAA inspector or examiner, and they saw Delta letting people get up, while taxiing, and use the restroom, how do you think that would go for the airline? How does anyone in the back know when the plane is #1 or #4, or #20 for takeoff? And, especially on weather days, you lose your spot on takeoff - you may lose your slot for departure altogether, you may go to the end of the line, or wait in the penalty box for a new clearance or release time - much more to the equation than just "let him go to the bathroom" or telling the pilot to wait.

On the flip side, airport security and airline procedures now do nothing for the travelling public (unless you fly first class or business). I get it; when you gotta go, you gotta go, and I do not see any viable options here for a passenger. On top of that, after being poked, prodded, stripped, and groped getting to the gate, you have a passenger that may be a little more agitated than normal. Add a frustrated employee, and you have a recipe for disaster. I was pretty ticked off on an AA flight I took in January, when I (being a cooperative and considerate passenger) checked my bag curbside and paid $25 to do so (Bag was carry on size suitcase). When I got to the gate, the agents were offering to check peoples luggage for free to their final destination. Frustrating? Sure! but that is the airline experience as we know it now. Perhaps they will introduce "customer service" to their training someday, but until then, remember, you are an inconvenience and a nuisance for the legacy carriers (AA, UA, DA) at the moment. (I intentionally left JetBlue and Southwest out of this because, for me, I have NOT had a bad experience with them, even during irregular operations - but I concede that may just be my experience)

One more point. After the UA incident, it seems like more of this is coming up. I fully understand this issue did not just start, however, how much of this might be intentional to get publicity, a viral video, and or compensation from the airline? Just saying, and I am NOT saying it applies here, but just an observation....
johnnyreth
John Retherford 2
I said it above that 30 days ago this would not have been news, and this stuff is a bit more common than people know about. I can tell you I have been on at least a 1/2 dozen flights where somebody got up while taxiing and they stopped that aircraft on the spot and did tell us that if that person standing did not get back to their seat and if anybody else got up we were going to lose our place in the departure line and we may have to go back to the gate.
angelruki
a p 1
how do you think that would go for the airline? Easy, if the inspector is able to use his/her brain and has common sense nothing would happen, if the inspector is an idiot without common sense who only is able to follow a rule like a robot, who knows...
watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 7
It would have taken a lot less time and not have caused the inconvenience of returning to the gate,had the flight attendant said ok, hurry to the restroom and get back in your seat as we are scheduled for take off..those commenting here I feel did not see or hear the entire story..we all know the faa requires all passengers to be seated and strapped in for take off, but i have also been on flights where (in first class anyway) a person has quickly gone to the restroom and returned to their seat as the plane was moving..it took more time for the flight attendant and another representative to speak with the man, as well as the debaucle of returning to the gate, than it would have for a flight attendant to simply communicate with the captain to say and we have a passenger in the lav..can you hold for one minute..it has been done..some people do not have the "total" bladder control that others have and do need to go more frequently..have a little empathy..this is hardly the same as the episodes on united and american,with the exception of all having to do with the discretionary actions of an employee of that airline...
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 3
What you suggest sounds totally sensible. As a matter of curiosity, if the Captain receives the go-ahead for take-off while that pax is not back, seated and strapped in, does the Captain have the authority to tell the Tower "can't right now, can you give me a few minutes"?
Srwalter
Steven Walter 2
mikeenderle
Michael Enderle 4
I'm glad that the poor treatment of passengers by airlines is getting some overdue attention. I wish TSA would be put under the same scrutiny, fondling little boys and whatnot. Enough attention for change to occure.
dbrosssr
David Rossbryan 1
Michael this has nothing to do with treatment by the airlines, this is a federal air regulation, (FAR). Does your job have regulations that you are required, by law, to follow? Would you risk losing your job for someone you don't know who has a SMALL problem and wants you to violate your company's rule or the law?
crayanderson
C Anderson 2
Absolutely. As a retired nurse, I was consistently awash in state and federal regulations. Everyone who worked on my team knew that patient care always came first and we made it a point to know how to identify government nonsense and when to ignore it. I have saved lives by NOT following the "rules". Critical thinking is an important skill and everyone should practice it.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
And you never bend the rules or laws for anything do you..and you know that he had a SMALL problem how?..if the FA's had been following the FAR, they would have notifyed that captain FIRST and if he had soiled himself and the aircraft while still on the ground, the aircraft would have to return to the gate!
crayanderson
C Anderson 2
It is an undeniable fact of life that a SMALL problem ignored will not be SMALL for very long.
johnnyreth
John Retherford 4
This would not even have been news 30 days ago!
aidannorman
aidannorman 0
I know, ever since the United Deal, the press is after these cases like crazy.
dbrosssr
David Rossbryan 4
Another bunch of comments from people that don't know what they are talking about. The federal air regulations require that the captain of the aircraft has all persons aboard their aircraft be strapped into their seats before starting to taxi and remain strapped in until after becoming airborne. The crew aboard ANY aircraft, except for some military flights, have to comply with the federal rules first and then their company rules.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
Read FAR 91-107 again and then read what I have been saying and what supercruiser1946 (posted above)also said...here is the excerpt from it I ma referring to.

"FAR 91.107

a(2) No pilot may cause to be moved on the surface, take off, or land a U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a basket or gondola, or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987) unless the pilot in command of that aircraft ensures that each person on board has been notified to fasten his or her safety belt and, if installed, his or her shoulder harness."
No pilot may cause to be moved on the surface...ie if they are sitting on a taxiway, the pax gets up, the FA's notify the pilot of the situation and then he decides...nothing at all demanding they stay strapped in if stopped on taxiway or ramp.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
So the FA's broke rules also when they got up to contend with this person...BTW the rules are mandatory when the aircraft is in motion on the ground..if there is an incident when an aircraft at rest, the onus is on the FA's to FIRST notify the captain as to the situation BEFORE the aircraft motion has either started or re-started.
tbpera
Tom Pera 3
Because of United's action and all the attention, any incident like this will be breathlessly reported by our wonderful media... until something else happens and takes their attention away... these incidents happen daily...we hear of very few of them... when a plane crashes all you hear for the next week are all the routine aviation glitches... predictable
johnnyreth
John Retherford 2
This would not have been news 30 days ago, and this stuff happens a little more than most may know before the United incident.
RDLoven
Richard Loven 3
I never thought bathrooms would become such important issues. Which one you should use. His or Hers, when, get permission etc.
This man was just exercising his emergency powers. Just like the Captain may do if it is the prudent to do so.When you got to go you got to go. I have declared an emergency and they said I did the right thing. So rather than wreck the Plane or wet your pants declare an emergency.
HamFlyer
Dave Bouknight 3
Ok...I get it. You gotta go. But unless it's your first ever flight, you know you can't do this. The airline was well within federal regulations to kick him off, especially after coming back to the restroom more than once. In this day and age of extremely heightened tensions, everyone has become a suspect.
Stainlessbeigh
Sterling Bouma 3
If the individual had had the respect to ring his flight attendant call button and explained the situation to the F/A, it probably would not be an issue. Federal law covering flight regulations are such as to keep the flying public safe, so ones personal needs do not superceed the safety rights of the many on the aircraft.
I see a propensity for spotlight and litigation in society increasing to make every issue an emotional drama that is played out in media, social and otherwise. Gold diggers looking for an easy buck. " it's not the evidence, but the seriousness of the charge" BS.
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 3
The FAR's are pretty clear, when the planes moving on the surface you can't walk around and the crew can't let you.

14 CFR 91.1017 ...
(2) No pilot may cause to be moved on the surface,...a U.S.-registered civil aircraft ... unless the pilot in command of that aircraft ensures that each person on board has been notified to fasten his or her safety belt...
(3) ... each person on board a U.S.-registered civil aircraft ... must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt ... properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface,...
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
Yes...movement...they were not moving...they were stationary on taxiway..most towers have allowances for small "holds" on taxiways.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Whether the A/C is stationary, in line or holding short of the runway...the fact is that it is an Active Taxiway. Sit down and stay buckled up. Incidents do happen on active taxiways.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
Ok Im confused...above you agreed with Supeercruiser and myself yet here you do a 180...The FAR he mentioned was incorrect anyhow..it is FAR 91-107 and implies while the aircraft is in motion...remember this craft had already been in a hold, on the taxiway, from the ATC...all the FA had to do was notify the captain and he can decide..case closed
Doobs
Dee Lowry 0
Who are the hell are you "Wolfie"? Are you a crew member? Doubt it. IMHO you're a "Talking Head"! I'm a Flight Attendant of 30 years and a Pilot, as well. I know the FAA Regs. I know my Airlines policies. You're all talk and nothing makes sense. Do you beleive in not keeping your seatbelt buckled during flight? Check out "Aeroflot" with CAT! Get it?
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
I(f you can't be civil and answer a simple question, don't answer with anything...as I said, above you agreed with Supercruiser and myself and now a 180...and boasting like a know it all is not cool either...too bad your opinion is wrong BTW!
Doobs
Dee Lowry 0
That's you're opinion!
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
"Are you a crew member? Doubt it. IMHO you're a "Talking Head"..as I said..your "opinion" is wrong and it's a fact..not an opinion!
dtw757
mike SUT -1
No they don't.....they kindly ask you to pull out of line and you can lose your takeoff spot, your oceanic crossing slot,wheels up time, etc etc...if a flight crew member asks you to do something, do it. If he had to go so bad he was afraid he was going to pee himself, then I'm pretty sure he knew he had a full bladder 30 mins prior when they were at the gate....most people I know don't go from zero to holy cow I'm going to wet myself now if I don't go.....

Regarding they weren't moving....how many times do you fly? There are always little stops and starts on the way to your takeoff slot. BUT they are very temporary and who's to say they weren't next for takeoff and he's walking about to go take a leak......this isn't an airline fault...he didn't comply with FAA rules and the Fight Attendants instructions.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve -1
Yes they do and I have flown a great deal..small holds are 2 mins or less in nature..any more than that and you are in an aborted pattern...and here we go again with the FA tells you to do something do it crap...situations arise were things happen and I DON'T think you run around asking your friends if they ever had a sudden urge to go to the bathroom!
JimG4170L
Jim Goldfuss 2
I appreciate the sudden urge, and yes, it has happened to me, but as bad as it was I was lucky enough to be able to hold it. I do not know what a viable solution is for the passenger. There are people with bladder issues who would not know 30 minutes before, and many times, there is just not enought time between connections. I always go to the bathroom right before they start boarding - just to avoid this in the first place.

As for your first remark about the hold - you are mistaken with the information you have. Not that I am a fan with how airline employees act of late, but where do we draw the line with what rules we do, and do not have to follow with Flight Attendants? Pilots? And of course we can extrapolate to Police Officers? That is more of a contemplative question then a need for an answer one.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 0
"I HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO MAKE MY CONNECTION" said no frequent flyer ever. But how about before leaving the gate ? A lot easier
sparkie624
sparkie624 5
Some people still cannot make it. On a 2 hour flight I usually have to hit it once... Just the way nature falls and I do make sure that I go before boarding.. Always... But still many times it is just not enough.
jlwso
John Locke 3
If your bladder control is iffy, seems there are two alternatives: 1)Don't fly. 2) buy piddle packs and always carry them onboard with you. Would be embarrassing but certainly better than what happened the unfortunate fellow in the headline.
jlwso
John Locke 3
Further info: Sporty's Pilot shop, Travel John (pack of three) $6.50. Description: Absorbent pouch turns urine into gel instantly while destroying bacteria and odor. Specially designed collar works for men, women and children; spill guard prevents back flow during use. Convenient, sanitary and compact, the Travel John is easy to use while sitting or standing. Will not leak, even if punctured.

Seems like a viable alternative.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum -1
Assuming, of course, it was only his bladder that required his trip to the bathroom.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 0
THANK YOU !

[This poster has been suspended.]

rapidwolve
rapidwolve 7
If a passenger explains that something may be wrong and he needs to urinate fast, and the story doesnt change, the crew shouldnt be uncomfortable..they are waiting for takeoff...some crew members get all bent sideways over humans being humans and having their inners not function properly for a bit..
dc3orbust
dc3orbust 3
Amazing what people will do for attention now days.
1) take care of business before getting on plane
2) One ting that always gets lost in these conversations is the other 2-300 people on board. What about them? They should all get to kick any offender of rules in the arse. We are so worried about offending one person we ruin the day for 100's.
3) I'm willing to bet a private part that we will see many more of these issues because troublemakers are going to have them all planned. Get some youtube time.
4) The first time there is a horrific accident upon takoff or landing because of people gadding about, the same media will stand around with disbelief and roast the airlines and FAA for doing nothing.
5) Honestly, if rules are not your thing, that is your right, just don't fly then.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 0
Uh - Flight Attendants rode in closets and on the toilet to get home in the past, no one talks about it but they've done it !
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
LOL.. I remember on a Dash 8 and a couple sneaked into the lav... Joining the mile high club. Hit turbulence, the door was knocked off its hinges and out they came.. Right up in front of everyone. Some people you just have to wonder about!
jimcander
Jim Anderson 3
There are rules and they exist for a reason. So what happens if, as this whole process plays out, the captain releases the brakes and he falls... hurts himself or someone else by falling on them. Delta gets eviscerated for breaking the rules.

Sit down, shut up and hold on. It's a bus with wings, kiddos.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 6
Next time, then, you best pay attention to the rules of the road, on a train, walking down the street, on a bus or in a building..DO NOT ever break 1..they exist for a reason so shut up and hold on..all rules are written in stone.
jimcander
Jim Anderson 1
As I said, they are there for a reason. If you get hurt, it's on you. They were on an active taxiway. He was warned. Don't see the problem here.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Sadly, it's not on you. It's on whatever deep pocket the personal injury lawyers can convince a jury to pin it on.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
He also explained the situation...and that is the whole issue...some don't ever see a problem when it arises until it's too late.
trennor
trennor turcotte 2
Idiocy run amok. The guy had to take a leak! Where has the understanding gone? Seems common sense has gone out the window. I'm not sure I'll every fly again; trains are SO much easier.
mduralia
Mike Duralia 2
Guess this is also why we only allow our kids to go to the restroom at "predetermined" times during the school day so they can "practice" for things like this....


Should there be any concern that his luggage remained aboard the plane after he was removed? I thought there was some "Security" rule about not separating passengers and their luggage?
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
We??? My son went to the bathroom whenever he had to go, not at pre-determined times...
AWAAlum
AWAAlum -1
He mentioned "during the school day" ... and as I recall, there indeed were scheduled breaks in the school day for the class to have bathroom breaks. Additionally, though, should the need arise, we were allowed to raise our hand and request a bathroom visit...which was always approved. I don't imagine he was suggesting that parents don't allow their children use of the bathroom because it wasn't "time". lolololol
dbrosssr
David Rossbryan 2
Search for and read 'FAR91-107' to learn why this person was denied the use of the restroom at this time. The only legal way to disobey an FAR is to declare an emergency and the possibility of wetting your pants doesn't stack up to being an emergency. I can't quote the FAR, at this time, but any person not complying with the orders of the pilot in command of the aircraft is deemed to be a potential risk and will be removed from the aircraft.
turnergn
turnergn 2
If airlines keep making bad decisions on ground situations, they are going to get customer service "help" from congress again .... remember Northwest and Detroit. In this case, safe operation of the aircraft, which was stationary, could be achieved by advising the pilot that a passenger had to use the lav.

[This poster has been suspended.]

beilstwh
beilstwh -1
except the last time that I used the call button it was 15 minutes before the attendant came to my seat. They really don't want to be bothered with helping the passengers.

[This poster has been suspended.]

rapidwolve
rapidwolve -3
Why do folks love comparing an apples to orange situation..this isn't your gated community and if it was, your security force would be the 1's under the microscope then you...do you comply with EVERY rule out there?..if not, don't go defending the airline...rules can be bent in dire situations!
dbrosssr
David Rossbryan 2
Only if an emergency is declared. Wetting your pants is NOT an emergency.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 0
And in this situation you know how?..were you on the flight?...dont go saying that the need to suddenly urinate couldn't be an emergency...and last night it said the poster was suspended, so how is it you know what I was repliying to them about today??
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 -1
And you bet if the f/a had to pee, they would go anyway, anytime......but they are crew! How many times have I had to slow down, s-turn if able or go around because the back end didn't get the carts put away fast enough? He had to pee and from all accounts, was back in his seat before they left the ground. Anecdote.: Now, if a women pax had to go, well, every gal would have go as well! Still, a rule is a rule.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
Also once in the air, the FA would've have just warned him and move along. I agree about the rule, but there are plenty of reasons to let this one go, like when a passenger has to go in their pants, or when even a puke bag is not enough if someone becomes really sick. I always think outside the box, and letting this go, (he was also in the back of the plane) makes everything work easier. Wrong yes, but there's no way everyone made their connections.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
He did convey his point and sometimes you can't control mother nature...tell me this...if you suddenly got a queezy stomach feeling and u know what, would you just sit there or would you tell a good FA, who would tell the captain?...I think the captain, in both cases, would have bought a few extra minutes on the taxiway, and then had a chat with the pax once airborne
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han -9
You think Airline won't lost a million return a plane back to gate and de-board everyone to drag a man off?
This is more about keeping a rule a rule. Wolves do that too, even when eating, after all they are one of the closet animal have a social structure resemble human's.

I will ask the PA for sickness bag and pee in it, yes it will be embarrassing but it is your own fault can't control your bladder. After all those sickness bags were designed to contain ANY liquid. It is not an emergency like an heart attack that you can't control it.

Oh Yes I thrown up into a bag in front of a FA in front of her after we landed (I am stuck in between passenger getting ready before we could deplane. She went to nearby Lav and hand me napkins as soon as I started to empty my stomach due to a bad approach).
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 7
OH BS..it isn't your fault if you have a bladder problem that hasn't happened before..a slight baldder infection can set off a whole series of events that make the bladder scream "empty me"...and yes...holding your urine for time can actually kill you..so don't hand me your crap line "but it is your own fault can't control your bladder"
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
1) he didn't convey his point. What are the other two? Bladder control and the fa's "this is the last time I'm telling you for the last time" don't count.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve -2
He conveyed he needed to urgently urinate, joel...this would have really look good on Delta should he have returned to his seat, held on, had an internal issue that he was unaware of, the urine backed up into his kidney and killed him..
Ruger9X19
Ruger9X19 4
A little dramatic don't you think.
Dl8698
David Loh 2
Yes it can happen. Maybe not KILL you immediately but it can cause lots of medical problems. Googles "holding back urine"
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 0
Not at all has it does happen
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
Agree in part. Convey implies the message is understood by the recipient, it is not clear whether the FA misunderstood the message import or disregarded it. Distended bladder can lead to bleeding or ruptured bladder. Urinary tract infection (UTI) with backup to kidneys can lead to renal infection and failure. In response to Ruger9x19's dramatic, the answer is yes especially to the patient and his insurance company (assuming he has insurance). In retrospect all can agree incident could have been handled better.
shenghaohan
Shenghao Han -4
This is also why lawyers fight so hard for first case of the type. Because even though not related, judges/jury tend to refer the judgement of the first case of the type to make judgement of the next case.

[This poster has been suspended.]

rapidwolve
rapidwolve 9
If the FA called and said that a pax had got up a few times and desperatly needed the loo for #1 not 2, a good captain would probably be ok with it if they were still on the taxiway..and a good FA would go that little extra bit.
JimG4170L
Jim Goldfuss 1
Fly out of ATL much? The last thing I would want is to have to hold 1 extra second on the ground there - Spend an hour in the penalty box because dispatch didn't get you the final weights in time and you lost your release time, and perhaps you would understand more.

As I have said, I don't know what viable alternative the passenger had (if he "really" had to go as he said), but the crew was in an equally problematic situation. If he goes unchallenged, what about the second person who gets up? the third? how long you willing to wait on the ground. Legal issues as well as the public's quickness to sue for a big payday, put businesses in a bad spot as well (though UA, in particular, did NOT handle that one well)
Dl8698
David Loh 1
For those who really have regular urge to pee but circumstances may be such that you just can't go and pee, perhaps Adult Diapers may be the amswer.
TWA55
TWA55 1
Sometimes people can't hold it, I'd rather let them in the biffy then do it in the seats. I have had my share of removing or putting a seat out of action due to, shall we call messes. Supercruiser is right.
Jamesrgb
Rich James 1
Quite right. Why don"t people do what they are told? Sick of people who think the rules do not apply to them. IF they had taken off and he had been injured, guaranteed he would want to sue them.
zephdoggie57
BOBBY CASKEY 1
The plane was holding. I don't believe his actions disrupted the departure or was cause for the airline's actions.
tbpera
Tom Pera 1
so tired of this crap! oops, no pun intended...
rastro9007
Robert Scribe 1
Note that Krista Rosolino in above article and videographer of the event is a personal injury attorney. Coincidence? Scam?

Airlines / flight crews are well within their rights when removing a passenger for disregarding the instructions of a uniformed flights crew member. It's quite simple.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 2
You miss the big picture here. Cockpit Resource Management........If you have a pax with a bathroom issue, call the in charge, they will notify the Captain and he will hold position or move into a holding bay if available. 5 minutes of delay does not warrant what happened on this flight. Aircraft in motion on the ground is nowwhere near as dangerous as when airborne. The same thing when it's a short taxi and the back end need more time to do their thing.....taxi slowly etc. Most of us old guys were limo drivers, easy on the thrust levers, very easy on the brakes and smooth in the turns. Should never have been an issue!
Cubby093
Scott Conklin 1
This is exactly why I fly Delta, there are no bending the rules in aviation. The flight has to be conducted in a specific time slot in order to minimize delay. There is a given departure time based on dispatched flight information, ARTCC sequencing, and gate availability. The airplane has to be ready for departure at the assigned time or risk a trickle down effect causing a delay in the entire system interrupting other flights. The FAA and airlines do not revolve around you or your needs, when you purchase your ticket you are agreeing to their contract of carriage and risk being removed from the system when you don't follow the rules. Perhaps another form of carriage either greyhound bus or train would be more suited to meet "your needs" so that people such as myself that are willing to abide by the agreements i make can continue to enjoy services I contract for.
byoungblood
Bart Youngblood 4
That's nice in theory, but that's not how the real world works. Crap happens (pardon the pun). Part of their business is dealing with unexpected situations. I agree that if you let everyone get up to go pee as soon as the urge hits each and every time the situation would be unworkable. But when its taking forever to get off the ground, you've got to be just a teeny bit flexible.
a17958dsm
Dana Smith 1
OK people... get it correct. ANY passenger not complying with crew instructions- for whatever they are is an F.A.R. violation- All crew instructions, passenger information signs- etc. Any violation of an FAR is seen first as a SECURITY THREAT to the safe operation of a flight. These incidents have all just made your flight less secure, and puts all the passengers at risk. It's time flight attendants started wearing body cameras to video from the beginning of any situation to get the whole story. That being said- thank a flight attendant for a safe flight- before you thank the button pushing pilots who are reading their latest edition of financial planning.
Midwaymike
Mike Lowe 3
Thanks for the pilot bash Dana. I do happen to agree with you regarding the Security issue and FAR's. These incidents DO make our flights less secure. My thought as a Captain for a major carrier that this crew could have handled this differently -as in any situation- there is always more than one path to choose (some better than others). BTW it is your "button pushing" pilots that get you there safely AS WELL AS your Flight Attendants in case you haven't figured it out yet - we work as a team to make it a safe flight.
Dl8698
David Loh 1
Just before i enter a cinema i pee. Even I'm not urgent. Just before boarding a plane i pee. Just before a long car trip i pee. Reason being i get rid of whatever amount of urine is in my bladder so that it gives me Maximum possible time before my bladder refills to the point of being urgent. Just a small tip I am passing to our readers here. NOT that i blame the pax for what happened.
rhw2
Richard Wooten 1
This is pure BS. Years ago when I had to do lot of flying due to my job, on Delta no less, out of Atlanta. I've seen more than one person getup to use the bathroom while the plane was not moving on the taxiway and "NOT A THING ONE SAID BY ANYONE". The man needs to sue Delta... Period!!!

It looks like we need a Federal Law to put a stop to this kind of thing by the Airlines. First United then Delta, please!!!

My Two Cents and thank God for cellphones.
aidannorman
aidannorman 1
The thing that I dislike about this is all the phones that were filming this, the law does NOTHING to protect your rights about being filmed when confronted with the police. Of course, these days people would want to be filmed because then they know it will hit the news.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 0
This is interesting. Health organizations and WHO consider human (or animal) urine, vomit, blood or excreta as a biohazard waste if not contained within the proper vessel (toilet, sink, properly stored barf bag, hazardous waste containers). If the pax did return to his seat and the plane takes off along with the pax's bladder, wouldn't that would mean, in essence, the passenger just created a biohard scene? Are all FA's trained in the proper containment, cleaning and disinfecting (if proper chemicals are aboard) of a biohazard scene?
Thoughts?
WavemanT
WavemanT 0
As others here have said, this could have been handled better by the passenger and crew by applying some common sense.

The incident reminds me of the movie Commando, in which Arnold Schwarzenegger asks to go to the lavatory while his plane is taxiing, explaining that he's airsick. He proceeds to find his way onto the landing gear, from which he jumps to the ground after the aircraft is airborne. And that's after he kills the man seated next to him.
lynx318
lynx318 -1
Airlines are potty because humans have to potty? Ludicrous!
busheyrk
Richard Bushey 0
Ok, so I've read many of the comments, but didn't see how the crew dealt with the passenger who was so urgent when he urinated on himself. Maybe he wasn't so urgent after all.

BTW, I flew from LAX to Kauai yesterday with my enlarged prostate and had no problem. First, I didn't drink my usual two mugs of coffee before leaving for the airport and second I used the restroom twice while waiting to board (flight was delayed for 1-1/4 hours). If you have this problem either plan ahead or have a strong rubber band available to "stem" your problem.

I regularly follow David Loh's advice two posts below. Just common sense.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 0
Hey Wolvie...yes, I am a 30 year Flight Crew Member. Throw it at me! With your attitude on my Airplane, I'd gladly remove you from my Airplane! Have a good nite.
1639847
Michael Armstrong -1
After a long hold (double entendre alert) going into ATL in the 80s, I declared an emergency and walked balk to the lav, climbed over the garbage stored in there by the FAs, and did my thing. The problems can be worse after the passage of time, so I often wear an adult diaper if I'm anticipating a problem flight. I'm happy to report that those things WORK, but still maintain that there should be some leeway for allowing emergency pax trips to the lav when on the ground or when the captain sees rippled in his/her coffee.

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