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  • 21

Can The Airline Industry Survive Climate Change?

Übermittelt
 
Commercial airliners pump out 2.5 percent of total global warming gasses. The “flight-shaming” movement now sweeping Europe shows signs of driving would-be air passengers to other modes of transport. (www.forbes.com) Mehr...

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E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes 22
The modern world is too dependent on air travel to move away from it.
jmilleratp
John Miller 14
True, but more efficient engines and aircraft designs are a good thing.
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes 4
Absolutely.
krs
Bob Poberezny 3
Yeah, but a 100% efficient machine is worthless without some energy to run it.
indy2001
indy2001 26
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." This statement was true when Mark Twain wrote The Innocents Abroad in 1869 when most people lived their entire lives within a few miles of their birthplace, and it's even truer today in our mobile society. Although the airlines and aircraft manufacturers must continue to do everything possible to reduce carbon emissions, travel is far too important to reduce drastically.
krs
Bob Poberezny 6
The most overlooked fact is that fossil fuel reserves are far from infinite. At some point they will be depleted to where the ROI makes them unusable. At this time, we are nowhere close to a technology that will make it possible to use any other energy source for airplanes...or cars. Even if we manage to overcome electric energy storage limitations, the energy to charge batteries still has to come from somewhere. I won't hold my breath waiting for someone to figure out how to run an airliner on nuclear or coal power.
jpennin1
Jim Pennington 1
If the oil dries up, then the likely alternative for aviation is biofuels. There have already been demonstration flights with aviation biofuels in airliners with ratios as high as 60/40.

Also, there are some technologies that may be right around the corner that will allow us to harvest the carbon from the air and turn it back into a fuel that we can burn. If green energy sources can be used to power that equipment, we can have a fuel source that is completely carbon neutral.
jpennin1
Jim Pennington 1
Here's an article that even mentions fueling airplanes... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817
JohnSmythe
John Smythe 8
If a dinosaur farts near a volcano, and it ignites, does that count as a CO2 emission?
Ive tried Goggling it and for some strange reason there’s nothing. Hmmmm
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 4
Check cow farts. The climate fanatics are all over that.
JohnSmythe
John Smythe 2
I have to admit that farts do indeed count. Maybe we should all (7.5 billion of us) just stop farting around and work on saving our sorry asses. If everyone does just a little bit, we will accomplish just a little bit. Think big if you want (need) big change.
techart
Jan Halvarson 4
It is difficult to believe a fact when one's paycheque depends on not knowing it.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Aerosols/page2.php
bbabis
Bill Babis 8
YES.
Next question.
scott8733
scott8733 8
Appropriately- the term 'flight shaming' was in quotation marks. I'll quote Oscar Wilde:

"The old believe everything, the middle-aged question everything, and the young know everything".
666adt
Andrew Turnbull 11
Better question: can mankind survive climate change fanatics and hysterics?
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 4
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
Andrew , Thanks for your reply . I appreciate it . They are fanatics and hysterical right now because the situation is urgent , and those in power and others that chose not to believe . I have likened this debate to the ultimate poker game . If the non-believers are right , than no harm done . If the non-belivers are wrong , by the time they realize it , the planet will be un-savable . And all of my grand children will ask me and all of us old farts " What the hell where we thinking " . I can't take that risk . Please have an open mind Andrew . Thats all i ask . Talk to your kids . It is their futures that are on the line . Thanks for writing ......Yours Truly ...DGR
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 4
When the fanatics can control earthquakes and volcanoes, get back to me.
equationator
Philip McNiel 3
Why would I ask my generation's kids or grandkids? They, like Greta Thunberg, are not old enough to remember when climate scientists said the north polar icecap would be gone at least part of the year as early as 2006, so they don't have the healthy skepticism that comes from having heard a pattern of failed doomsday predictions.
wiztom
Thomas Scally 3
No real science to back up your BS. Don't scare your grand kids by drinking the cool aid.
leomgoes
Leonardo Goes 0
You unfortunately will survive, your kids or the kids of them will not.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 4
Leonardo , i do not if you are replying to my post , but i will accept that you are . While i admitted 2 things , Airlines should be considered essential services , and that i accept climate change , is not un-acceptable . I am just trying to acknowledge that certain services are essential . But as for my Grand children and my niece and nephews families , i am terrified for them . They too are scared for their children . You are right ...i'm an old fart that will not live to witness " Soylent Green " , but it does not mean i am uncaring and selfish . Thanks for your comment . I appreciate it ..........DGR
wiztom
Thomas Scally 1
You wont be around to know if your unfounded prediction came true
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 2
What people often fail to realize that there are other avenues that will be even worse. Are we as a species going to return to the days of sail to get across oceans that would take a couple of weeks? are we going back to ocean going liners that pollute even worse than planes as well as in some instances, dump sewage overboard (Carnival got busted over that: https://www.ft.com/content/8bceef94-86cd-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2 )?

I seriously doubt anyone will give up getting to Australia from the US in 16-22 hours or from Frankfurt to Chicago in 6-8 hours and no sewage getting dumped overboard.
PeterMcDevitt
Peter McDevitt 6
In case you missed it, the Earth's climate has never EVER been static. NEVER! Haven't you read about the Ice Age?
This entire exercise is a colossal waste of time and resources. In the final analysis we will learn that this is nothing more than an exercise in re-ordering the economic structure of the world in the name of a hoax.
On the subject of carbon; Carbon is an essential element in our existence and in our environment. Avoiding it or diminishing it is hazardous to our survivable. Trees require carbon for growth and growing leaves. Trees give us canopy, which provide us with protection from the sun. Leaves, when they fall, provide us with soil which provide a base to grow our crops and become part of the food chain. Eliminate trees? Have you been to Africa or South America where the clear cutting has resulted in arid and unusable land.
I could go on but, hopefully you get the picture.
"It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" and that's exactly what the Climate Change people are trying to do but their real motive is in restructuring our economies.
Knock it off
ghstark
Greg S 10
At the scientist level it's certainly not a hoax. It may be a mistake, but it's not a hoax. The manner politicians spin the science may be hoax. The way "greenhouse" gases trap certain frequencies of solar radiation is not a theory, it is settled science. It's also not new idea, it's been around for at least 100 years. Without this greenhouse effect the earth would likely be unlivably cold. The climate change question centers around what how the additional greenhouse gases added to atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial age may affect the climate. Disentangling the effect of this from the natural processes that change the climate is actually very hard. Long before the industrial revolution the earth experienced phenomenal climate change, an enormous global warming. And you can't avoid or diminish carbon other than minuscule amounts in nuclear power and nuclear explosions. The issue is that we're moving carbon that is trapped in the ground into the atmosphere in a form that can magnify the greenhouse gas effect.
flightawarecompis
Lee Dilley 3
Well stated. I would really appreciate your recommendation of a scientific paper or other source that clearly explains the mechanism of the atmosphere trapping certain frequencies of solar radiation.
ghstark
Greg S 1
Here are two links: The first one is at a relatively high level, the second has more technical detail about frequencies.

1. https://scied.ucar.edu/longcontent/greenhouse-effect

2. https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/101017/
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
Except science lied about the actual temperature changes do it appears we're hearing up.
PeterMcDevitt
Peter McDevitt 1
The 'accepted' science is actually not true. The accurate description is 'consensus' of scientists. What does that mean? Well, it puts it in the category of, Maybe.
There is an excellent book, "A Disgrace to the profession" written by Mark Steyn which in plain understandable layman's language the entire argument. It is very well written and a compelling read. I highly recommend it. In fact it should be required reading in our educational system
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 2
CO2 = Plant Food.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
Climate changes on MARS - NO PEOPLE!
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 1
well then , your cheering on the coming ice age . Either way we are all dead . Don't you want to try and prevent a catastrophe ? Why are you seeing conspiracies around every corner ? I will never give in to your beliefs . I will try to understand them , but your premise is wrong .............So , what now ? .
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes 1
Are you proposing that we should all gather in one place, form a huge circle, and on an agreed signal all cap the person to the right?
baingm
Gary Bain 1
What if your premise is wrong DGR?
bennettgaryw
Gary Bennett 8
One thing about climate change. It absolutely made Al Gore rich!
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 3
Off sets ? A statistical method of moving # or % around in a desired way , to show that the Carbon Off Set works . Some time ago i worked with Statistics , and quickly realized that if the # or % are massaged one can get a very impressive result that proves what your Boss wants to see . BUT , aero- engines pollute . It is a basic fact . Thats a given , and it is the cheapest way to propel an aircraft . In an other article today there is the talk of the Electric flight in B.C. Yes electric motors work . But required so many heavy batteries there is no room for passengers and baggage . I have this thought , that if ICAO and IATA , persue a course off forever finding cleaner fuels , and Engine manufacturers continue making the most fuel efficient engines possible ,maybe the Airline industry could be cut some slack on the pollution file . When you get right down to it , there just aren't any options and society needs this service . Just so you know i am a Environmentalist and believe in Climate change , but society can't just ground such a vital transportation method .......Thats my 2 Cents worth . I'd love to hear from others about this ...........DGR
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 3
Truly sad that a small group of fanatics can convince the world that we are close to the extinction. Climate has been changing since the earth was created. Man cannot control it. Climate change happens on Mars - WITHOUT PEOPLE.
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Absolutely. This climate change frenzy is absolute bullshit.
linbb
linbb 2
The earth has been warming since it started to thaw nothing new and its going to continue. Get over the hype all it is someone making money off of it at the cost to taxpayers
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 9
It will be till the next Ice Age when 1/2 of the N Hemisphere will be under a mile of ice. Then, you won't be able to take off or land anyway. LOL
baingm
Gary Bain 1
gorbush
gorbush -1
You are wrong. In reality Erath's core is cooling all the time. That will also inevitably happen to it's Surface like on Mars.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-activity-and-the-so-called-little-ice-age
wiztom
Thomas Scally 2
Erath's core should cool in about 100 million years. Have a beer.
tylerjemtage
Tyler Emtage 0
I think the headline should be, "Can The Airline Industry Survive Something That Doesn't Exist?"
leomgoes
Leonardo Goes 9
Quick, get your aluminum hat!
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Indeed Tyler.
jeffinsydney
jeff slack 0
A better question would be will the Industry survive any Government regulations based on climate change?

The industry will not survive Climate Change as the world changes due significant flooding and extremes in weather...............where does a plane land if impacted by weather events (?) how are schedules maintained (?) how will passengers make their flights if highways are flooded or loaded with a layer of snow and ice (?) or the heat is so intense the air does not provide lift under the wings (already happening in Australia).................the stupidity here is breathtaking.

There is a much bigger picture here and one most do not want to see; all the while thinking the Black Friday sales will continue regardless, Facebook will continue to function and your family will not be affected.

People like @linbb with their smug comment below is correct; the world has been warming for years.

However, we turned the burner up from simmer to high and we are not doing anything to moderate the pot that is about to boil over.
VKSheridan
VKSheridan 9
@jeff - You accuse @linb of being smug preceded by the comment, “the stupidity in here is breathtaking”, This is a great example why any conversation on the subject struggles. If an opinion is different than one’s own, the author must be smug or stupid. Your words, not mine.

I don’t think anyone denies climate change. It is self evident from the existence of the expansion and contraction of the ice age to the existence of a petrified forest in the Arizona desert. The climate is changing and what we once considered predictive weather patterns are being viewed as less predictive.

The debate arises from the assertion that man is in control of climate change.

One corner says we are causing it, another corner says we are a strong contributor, another corner says we can change it and the last corner disagrees with them all. Each opinion gets amplified with sensationalistic comments under the misguided belief that if the music is blasted, everyone will not just hear the lyrics but will understand them.

Reducing carbon emissions isn’t a bad thing but choking a person to lower their exhale won’t get them to agree.

I have an opinion on climate change like everyone else. It is statistically certain the other three corners will disagree since my opinion won’t mirror their own so I will respectfully abstain from sharing it. Of course, I’ll be called stupid and smug for not exposing myself to opinion shaming but hey, no biggie.
raytoews
Ray Toews 2
Well stated.
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Well said VK. That's exactly the way I see it.
bentwing60
bentwing60 19
Well, let's see. 44 and crew just paid just shy of 12 mil. for a beech front property on Martha's Vineyard. My home sits at 640' above sea level. If he ain't worried about it, I will certainly not rush out to buy sand bags. And I am still drivin' a 96 Tahoe with 245,000 miles on it at 15 to the gallon. down vote, show anyway.
jbsimms
James Simms 0
01 Dodge Ram 1500 w/134,500 miles on it, 10.whatever in town. It is a lot cheaper than a vehicle payment every month. I do admit to looking @ something more suited for in town where I do 99.9% of my driving, & no; I’m not looking for an all electric or hybrid. I’ll never have another “new” vehicle ever again.
ghstark
Greg S 1
Your comment assumes that either these changes will happen overnight or they will happen gradually and somehow we'll be unable to adapt. But assumptions are wrong.
Saxier1
Mark Gaines 0
Where in Australia does the intense heat prevent planes from flying? I have lived here for 60 years, involved in the airline industry and travel constantly by plane throughout our continent, this is a new one on me...
BDaleR
Byron Russell 1
Not Australia, but I lived in the Phoenix, AZ, are for a number of years. In the mid-90s, just before we moved there, I recall hearing that Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport cancelled flights one day because of the heat. Summer highs of 110+ F are not uncommon and don't affect flight operations. That summer they had a few days in the mid-120s. I think there was only one day when flights were affected and I don't recall it happening again since. One day in the last 25 years.
dmedders
David Medders 1
Cancellations were for lack of performance data at those high ambient temperatures.
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Exactly!
Brucemb
Bruce Bilbrey 1
There have been numerous articles indicating that less than .5 of one percent of climate change is man caused from all sources. Climate change has and will continue to occur throughout history!
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 2
not worthy of reply
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Yep DGR. I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts.
wiztom
Thomas Scally 0
Neither are you
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 2
Amen Brotha! When our sun dies and keeps getting larger it will finally swallow the earth, that will really be Global Warming--without any evil people having anything to do with it.
raytoews
Ray Toews -3
It is heat. C02 is smoke and mirrors. What does a ton of Co2 look like?

Try not producing HEAT. Go ahead, show me one human activity that doesn't produce heat?
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 3
flapping gums
JohnSmythe
John Smythe 3
I know some people who have flapped their gums so much that my ears started to bleed
wiztom
Thomas Scally 1
jicsrur
brad friesen 1
I believe in "Climate Change".
Here is a documentary made quoting scientists in the 1970s.
Aren't we suppose to be in the new Ice Age now?

Enjoy

https://youtu.be/zSDLRm3jhc8
paulgilpin1953
paul gilpin 2
i am amazed, amazed i tell you, that the whack jobs at youtube allow that video to remain.
bizprop
bizprop -2
This is nothing more than a big power and money grab by Government. Always looking for new ways to get their hands in our pockets.
tbmorris51
Tom Morris 1
The industry can probably survive climate change, but I wonder about families who use a 16 year old girl with an autism spectrum disorder to get her so revved up over something neither she nor we have significant control over.
Climate has always changed or maybe one would call it a cycle. It changed before airplanes and cars and before the industrial revolution.
Lets get government out of the way and let industry help us find a solution to the small part man plays.
Tinktank
Tink Tank 1
The myth of “global warming gasses” will go down as the greatest hoax of modern times. It’s simply a method to consolidate power in the hands of the few. It’s simply Marxism’s new label.
baingm
Gary Bain 1
Indeed Tink, indeed.
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
Who fails to acknowledge (ultimately irreversible) climate change is scientifically illiterate and are unable to grasp entropy. I say this as a longtime scientist, engineer, atheist and commercial pilot, and primarily conservative exceptfor this aqnd 3 other issues - the right to choose, the need for separation of church and state, and LGBT rights.
baingm
Gary Bain 0
Climate change yes as a result of normal cycles. Man made global warming no. I'm not illiterate but I do do my research.
krs
Bob Poberezny 1
But the laws of thermodynamics show that at some point they cyclic nature will cease and the difference now is that human activity affects the amplitude of warming cycles. Research is only valid when it's willing to consider both sides of a question.
E1craZ4life
Edward Bardes 1
By that logic, all the excess CO2 in the atmosphere should eventually return to Earth; the first law states that energy is neither created nor destroyed.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 1
I can't believe how pessimistic and indifferent people are about our climate .
wiztom
Thomas Scally 5
I Can't believe how gullible people are about our earths climate.
manarii
Dr Stephen Vadas 4
Humans will not be able to do anything for our climate. It is just nature and evolution.
baingm
Gary Bain 1
I can't believe how gullible people are!
SmittySmithsonite
"Climate Change" ... that moonbatty buzzword tells me I'd better click elsewhere.
SmittySmithsonite
But, if one half of the voting population gets their way, many won't be able to fly anyway, so this will be a moot point at that stage. We're just one vote away ...
nathansthepilot
Nathan Cox 1
I’m surprised everyone making comments has just accepted “climate change”, “global warming”, “the hole in the ozone layer,” etc... no one wants to mention the thousands of scientists and the original owner of The Weather Channel who question the science behind this new ‘religion‘ of a global problem we now call “climate change. It even has a new leader... This said, I’m all for less pollution (I’ve flown into New Delhi 😷)
ianbtv
Ian Campbell 1
Planning for the future while maximizing profits for shareholders ... at some point we need to choose to pay it forward ... but the materialistic culture persists for now. What will YOU teach to your children by example?
BDaleR
Byron Russell 0
One can believe that the climate is changing but still decry the alarmists' hysteria as a money and power grab that is not likely to accomplish their stated goal of setting the Earth's thermostat precisely to an unchangeable temperature. And when some AGW proponents misuse graphs and data to support their position it casts their whole argument in doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvrsA0XlYGg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2R-VQUY5plt4eUbC6SC0zLSLydgoHar8i2vorTGiLsqWLNsNsQIOdV3x8
CanadaCindy
Cindy Wilcox 0
Oh please 🙄
JohnSmythe
John Smythe -1
They “They” say that CO2 levels haven’t been this high since 800,000 years ago.
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that there weren’t any airplanes back then.
And one thing “They” seem to forget is that 800,000 years ago “we” were in the middle of the last ice age.
frewrednav
Jake Vander Werf -1
Here is something said by the One that created the earth, - "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease." Genesis 8:22
God has got it under control.
ba151
Bruce Atkinson 1
👍
krs
Bob Poberezny -1
http://www.godisimaginary.com
JohnSmythe
John Smythe -3
Just our crappy luck. Stuck in the middle of a 97% natural climate shift.

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