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FAA bars flight maneuver after D.C. incident

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Close call at Reagan National prompts change The Federal Aviation Administration will bar airports nationwide from using a traffic-reversing operation after a close call last week at an airport near the nation’s capital. (www.washingtontimes.com) Mehr...

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spatr
spatr 4
when crews start refusing clearances to runways with too much of a tailwind component, this "maneuver" will be reauthorized, or delays will pile up.
radelizzi
Instead of addressing the issue as it occurred, the FAA makes another classic knee jerk reaction to "fix" the problem.
preacher1
preacher1 3
Best that I read that story, had it been done properly, they wouldn't have been heading at each other. The FAA's fix is just window dressing for the whole thing to cover butts, not a fix to the miscommunication problem, which was what led to the incident in the first place.
unclebigpete
Peter Douglas 4
so what happens when the weather turns around - landing/takeoffs with a tailwind ?
cm5299
Chuck Me 1
Assume we're talking about an airport with two parallels. 9/27 R/L.

I assume they just change runways. I think this is just saying they can't happen together. Can't land on 27R while departing on 9R anymore. They'll have to switch them all to 27 L/R or 9 L/R.
tyketto
Only problem is that some airports have noise abatement procedures that require opposite direction landings/departures. Specifically, LAX.

From midnight to 6:30am local time, they land 6R, Depart 25R, so most engine noise is over the ocean instead of the city and along the coastline. This could potentially kill that.
tbpera
Tom Pera 2
let's see... tower sees wind shift...must change runway... notifies approach control who notifies center.. looks like they'll have to hold all the inbounds somewhere... pity the poor controller who just accepted 5-6 inbounds then gets shut-off and has to find a place to put them... does this sound safer to you?
RobSJC
Before we know it .. all the "former" military bases may "re-open" so there will be some place for them to land .. then bus them back to the original destination
tbpera
Tom Pera 1
every airport has a calm wind runway designation.... that is, when the wind is calm RWY xx is always used.. but, it's much bigger than that... a major airport runway in use impacts approach control and center operations. If SFO has to change runways, arrivals and departures out of airports in the area are all effected and the patterns for airports in the area are changed, too... changing runways not a simple operation... that being said, it is possible to allow opposite direction departure or arrival during lulls in activity
SangLe
Sang Le 1
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

FAA suspends air traffic procedure that preceded close call near D.C.

The Federal Aviation Administration has suspended an air traffic-switching procedure that preceded a close call among three planes last week at Washington's Reagan National Airport, Reuters reports.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/08/faa-suspends-air-traffic-procedure-that-preceded-close-call/819701/1
btweston
btweston 1
This is kind of a knee jerk reaction. Nothing happened, the planes were never even really that close, yet we're freaking out because airplanes are involved. By the reasoning employed here the use of automobiles should have been outlawed well before the Great War.
cm5299
Chuck Me 1
Can a controller explain this to me please? This article is pretty weak.

I assume they are not preventing airports from changing runways for arrivals and departures based on wind conditions.

It would seem they are Just preventing them from happening together. Basically they are saying traffic has to flow one way. No arrivals and departures heading "straight at each other".
mk882004
Matt Kladder 2
I don't go back to work until tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure this is just saying that if ATC is advertising a west flow, and the wind is calm enough and a pilot requests to depart east, these will be automatically denied. It will hurt the smaller airports that have abilities to depart opposite direction sometimes. this is not saying once on a west flow always on a west flow that isn't feasible, and therefore didn't fix the problem anyway... typical FAA
westfly
kyle estep 2
Yup, dealt with this early this morning, calm wind, tower opens on a south departure cause that is what a plane was doing when it opened. 3 of us all departing north had to take the much longer taxi from the terminal to depart south then wait for departure to turn us back north. Controller said he would have had to have any inbounds hold (though the only one had already landed right when the tower opened) and change the atis to allow any north takeoffs or landings.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Ain't the fedul gummit wunerful.LOL Lot's of new terminals are now being built at one end of the runway as well, rather than mid-field. it'll get worse before it gets better.LOL
mk882004
Matt Kladder 1
The problem was communication, look into fixing that, if those controllers communicate effectively the planes depart opposite direction and never get to close.
davysims
David Sims 1
So how long before a bigger accident happens when a plane tries to takeoff or land with a tailwind because ATC no longer has authority to change runway direction?
westfly
kyle estep 1
ATC can still change the runway configuration to match the wind. They CAN'T let anyone operate in a direction other than the current and advertised (listed on the ATIS) direction except in a declared emergency.
preacher1
preacher1 1
And that is what is sad, because as in your earlier post, 3 of you had a bad long taxi, and then got dumped on departure to turn you back North. Of course, TRACON was expecting departures that way. It may have surprised them for you to pop up out of nowhere, heading North. After you were airborne, you weren't the tower's worry anymore.LOL
tyketto
This is actually incorrect.

Pilots can request any runway they want regardless of if it is listed in the ATIS or not, but they may not know how much of a delay they will take.

Because of the density altitude and hot winds during this time, even though the 25s and 19s may be broadcast in the ATIS, there are pilots who request a 7L departure at KLAS, and get it. It is less of them letting someone do it, but how much of a delay other pilots will have in ATC accommodating the request.

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